Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Lee R. Martin" <lmartin AT vol.com>]

Dear Dave,
Yes, I am acquainted with Chomsky (and with misuses of his theories), but I 
am not aware of his
use of TGG in translation of foreign languages.
I still don't see how searching for some "basic" verb form helps to answer 
any questions.
I still don't see how denying the VSO word order leads to better 
understanding of the text.  By
the way, TGG does not tell us the standard Hebrew word order.  It can only 
help us "after" we
already know the standard word order, and that order may with the kind of 
speech act.
You still haven't answered my questions about qatal with and without the 
(redundant) subject.
Lee R. Martin

Dave Washburn wrote:

> Lee,
> Are you familiar with transformational-generative grammar?
>
> > Dear Dave,
> > Regarding your post below regarding "movement," what is the point?  Why 
> > does it matter?
> > What difference does it make when I read Hebrew?  By reading the HB, we 
> > see clearly that
> > VSO is the normal word order for standard communication? I honestly do 
> > not understand what
> > you are trying to accomplish by talking about "movement."
> > Lee R. Martin
> >
> > Dave Washburn wrote:
> >
> > > Lee wrote:
> > > > Dear Dave and Vince,
> > > > How many qatals are in the HB?
> > > > How many qatals have a named subject?
> > > > How many qatals are preceded by its subject?
> > >
> > > All good questions.
> > >
> > > > Because the finite verb is inflected, the majority of verbs do not 
> > > > even have a named
> > > > subject.  Therefore, without the necessity of a named subject, it is 
> > > > impossible to
> > > > require SVO as the standard word order.  The best you can do is to 
> > > > say, "When the
> > > > subject is named, the unmarked order is SVO."  However, I do not 
> > > > think you can show
> > > > SVO to be the unmarked order in any type of literature in the HB.  It 
> > > > may be possible
> > > > to show that unmarked word order is variable.
> > >
> > > Again, markedness is not the issue.  A "basic" word order, i.e. the
> > > one from which other word orders are derived by movement, may or
> > > may not be marked in certain contexts.  That's not the question.
> > > The question is whether the forms with waw are derived by
> > > transformation from the forms without it, as well as whether the
> > > yiqtol forms are derived by transformation from the qatal forms.
> > > The alternative is for the non-waw forms to be derived by deletion of
> > > the waw and the qatal forms to be derived by deletion of the yiqtol
> > > prefix(es).  Along with that is the question of whether the verb-initial
> > > status of the waw forms is derived by movement from a deep
> > > structure SVO order, or whether the X-qatal/X-yiqtol order is derived
> > > by movement from a deep structure VSO order.  The point about
> > > stated subjects is well taken, but it doesn't change the fact that,
> > > from deep structure, movement of some sort is taking place
> > > somewhere among the different word-orders.
> > >
> > > Dave Washburn
> > > http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
> > > A Bible that's falling apart means a life that isn't.
> > >
> > > ---
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> > --
> >
> > Lee R. Martin
> > Pastor, Prospect Church of God, Cleveland, Tennessee
> > Instructor in Hebrew and Old Testament
> > Church of God Theological Seminary
> > http://earth.vol.com/~lmartin/
> >
> >
>
> Dave Washburn
> http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
> A Bible that's falling apart means a life that isn't.

--

Lee R. Martin
Pastor, Prospect Church of God, Cleveland, Tennessee
Instructor in Hebrew and Old Testament
Church of God Theological Seminary
http://earth.vol.com/~lmartin/