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  • From: peter_kirk AT SIL.ORG
  • To: b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu
  • Subject: Re[2]: body and soul
  • Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:22:32 -0500


Dear Ron,

Thank you for your interesting comments.

What do you make of Daniel chapter 12, especially verses 2 and 13?
This is part of the Hebrew Bible, even if it is perhaps the very
latest part.

I have trouble with your interpretation of 1 Samuel 28, even if it is
very ancient. The text clearly says that the speaker in verses 15-19
was Samuel; we also read that "the woman saw Samuel" (v.12), "Saul
knew that it was Samuel" (v.14) and "the words of Samuel" (v.20). It
is clear that the author of the text, as well as Samuel and the
medium, believed that Samuel really appeared, and in bodily form
(v.14). (But what does the ):ELOHIYM in v.13 mean? NIV "spirit"
suggests something like a ghost - surely it cannot mean that!) No
mention of what happened to Samuel afterwards - presumably he went
back down into the ground. It is also worth noting that Samuel's words
ended with a specific prophecy which was fulfilled, which is hardly
compatible with the idea that this was a demonic manifestation.

I agree that the best understanding of the Hebrew belief is that the
dead did in general simply die and that the "Sheol" to which they went
was simply a collective term for graves. The spirit departing from a
person simply means that they stop breathing, which means that they
are dead, and they go to Sheol simply by being buried. But I see in
the medium of Endor incident a belief that the grave was more than a
place of destruction, rather a place of continued existence perhaps in
a state like sleep, from which God could bring back the dead by
specific intervention. God did this in at Endor; also, we read in 1
Kings 17 that the breath [N:$FMFH] had departed from a boy (v.17) and
then YHWH returned to him his life [NEPE$] (v.22) - though this boy
had not been buried, had not gone to Sheol. Similarly presumably in 2
Kings 4. Psalm 104:29-30 is also interesting (though the parallel is
hidden in NIV): taking away spirit = death, sending spirit = new life,
apparently even for these non-human creatures who have "returned to
dust". This understanding later developed into the belief that God
actually will bring back all of the dead, reflected in Daniel 12 and
in later Judaism and Christianity.

Peter Kirk





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