Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Peter_Kirk AT SIL.ORG]

Let me reply with reference also to Ben's quotes from Motyer. I agree 
with Motyer's first structure, verses 21-26, which I think is a 
clearly indicated chiasmus with "faithful city" at the outside. But I 
disagree with his second "neatly dovetailed" structure. For one thing 
I wonder if Hebrew authors really did quite such complicated 
interleaved dovetailing. But more fundamentally I see differences in 
theme and vocabulary between the three sections I have proposed, 
21-26, 27-28 and 29-30. (I am not yet sure how verse 31 fits.) Each of 
these sections is internally coherent, with parallel structures, 
contrasts, repeated vocabulary etc. But there is no clear coherence 
between any one section and any other. I notice that BHS suggests the 
same by varying the level of indentation. I know this does not explain 
the grammar of 27-28, but I doubt if peaking is the only possible 
cause.

Now, I am not looking for botched editing. But I think it is generally 
agreed that prophetic books are at least in part collections of 
separate oracles which have been put together by scribes. I would 
suggest that 21-26, 27-28 and 29-30 (or 31?) were originally separate 
sayings, or parts of longer discourses, which have been brought 
together (probably without any deliberate editing) by a disciple of 
the prophet.

Peter Kirk


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Change of person (Is 1:24b-31)
Author:  zellmer AT cag.pworld.net.ph at internet
Date:    21/01/1999 17:18


Peter_Kirk AT SIL.ORG wrote:

> As I mentioned in a previous E-mail, I see an inclusio from verses 21 
> to 26 "faithful city" which suggests a self-contained section 21-26. 
> That and the shift of person would be enough to suggest a change at
> v.27.

Peter, I'm not quite sure what kind of change you are saying is suggested.  
Is 
this a
change of speaker?  Even if "faithful city" is an inclusio, that does not 
preven
t
the
original speaker from continuing.  Hence, my original question.

> I am not sure that NIV takes 27-28 as a parenthesis, but if it
> does I would suggest that this is incorrect - I don't see coherence
> (as NIV has translated) between 21-26 and 29-31. More probably 21-26, 
> 27-28 and 29-31 were originally three separate utterances.
>

Perhaps "parenthesis" was the wrong term.  Would you prefer "transitional 
statement"?
Anyway, NIV clearly takes 27-28 out of the quotation marks.

I personally am steered away from the verses simply being a transitional 
statement
because, instead of smoothing out problematic grammar, these verses are the 
location
of some of the more unusual grammar forms.  As I said, it looks like peak to 
me.
I
guess I'm just going to have that open note to myself to continue to look for 
shift of
person at peaks in predictive narratives.

Hey, I know!  This is just another example of editorial work that was 
botched! 
;^>

Paul
--
Paul and Dee Zellmer, Jimmy Guingab, Geoffrey Beltran 
Ibanag Translation Project
Cabagan, Philippines

zellmer AT faith.edu.ph