Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Irene Riegner <iriegner AT concentric.net>]

Dear List People

John Ronning quoting himself and Jonathan Safren and then responding to J. Safren wrote (and I'm not always sure who is quoting who and who is responding) 

> Your point is valid that Gen 1:2 seems to presume pre-existent matter,
> but my point is
> that this matter is not said to be eternal - was it previously created
> or not?  I don't
> think Genesis 1 addresses the issue,
 
The question of the creation of pre-existant matter and whether this
is eternal  are not questions which concerned the writers of Gen 1
(or Gen 2 for that matter).  They were not interested in first causes
and absolute beginnings and would probably not even understand this question.
This question of first causes was the concern of Greek philosophy. 
The various, Greek creation myths don't even address this issue. They,
like the Enuma Elish, assume some kind of "pre-existing" chaos.  The
"innovation" of Gen 1 might be its description of this "pre-existing" material
as something that is not only unformed but quiescent rather than chaotic---lifeless---and
that the deity provided the form and movement---life---to this material.

    BTW, I'm not sure I like the term "pre-existent matter."  If it's physical matter, then it exists even if it is in a different state than the one we know (and love).

    Can we understand the cosmic perspective of Gen 1 as an expansion of the perspective of Gen 2, which focuses on the earth?  Gen 1 responds to the more cosmic concerns of the Assyrian and Babylonian myths and represents an expanded Israelite/Judahite perspective and response to the influence of a foreign culture.

    What is the relationship between the idea of an absolute beginning (creatio ex nihilo) and an endtime, especially an apocalyptic endtime?  Does one require the other?
 

irene