Biblical Hebrew Forum

[John Ronning <ronning AT ilink.nis.za>]

Rolf Furuli wrote:

> To read into Jesus' words a reference to Exodus 3:14, to the effect that he
> claimed: "I am YHWH", is completely unfounded. We must remember that the
> trinity doctrine was first born 400 years later, and that the writers of
> the NT tells that Jesus is YHWH's *son* and not YHWH himself. The fact that
> the jews tried to stone him, does not prove that Jesus claimed to be YHWH.
> The claim that he had lived before Abraham, thus having a supernatural
> origin, and his words which contradicted their understanding of their own
> law, was enought in their eyes to take his life.

I suppose you are right in that Jesus' claim to be the *Son* of God was
regarded as blasphemous.  But as I tried to suggest in my earlier note,
the egw eimi may refer to Exod 3:14 indirectly through the 'ani hu'
passages in Isaiah which seem to refer back to Exod 3:14.  Even if you
disallow the reference to Exod 3:14, "egw eimi" as allusion to the
Isaiah passages is a claim to the name Yhwh, since Yhwh is the one who
is saying this in Isaiah.  

I see no reason to shy away from the conclusion that the NT views Jesus
as Yhwh.  John 12:41 (after quoting from Isaiah 6) says that Isaiah saw
Christ's glory - probably a reference to Isaiah's vision of the glory of
Yhwh.  I would also read "The Word became flesh" (John 1:14) as "Yhwh
became flesh," based on the targums' practice of rendering Yhwh as "the
word of the Lord" (especially since the context speaks of him
tabernacling among his people and manifesting his glory, as Yhwh did
when both the tabernacle and the temple were dedicated).  Then there is
Jesus' statement "I have come down from heaven" (John 6:38), which is
what Yhwh did in the Old Testament (most notably Exod 3:7-8).  You also
have Rev 1:17 in which the glorified Jesus says "I am the first and the
last" (which Yhwh says in Isa 41:4 and 48:12) - also Rev 22:13.  Jesus
is the bridegroom of the Church, whereas in the Old Testament Yhwh is
the bridegroom of his people.  He is also the divine warrior in
Revelation 19, as Yhwh is in Isa 59:15b-21 and 63:1-6.  It is Yhwh in
the Old Testament who says, as Jesus does in the "great commission"
(Matt 28:18-20) "I will be with you" (the great commission has numerous
parallels with Yhwh's commission of Joshua (Josh 1:5-9).  Paul says they
"crucified the Lord of glory," recalling Yhwh's title "king of glory" in
Psalm 24.  Etc., etc.

Neither is this a NT innovation - Zechariah foresaw a time when
Israelites would look upon Yhwh, whom they had pierced, and repent
(12:10), and in Malachi Yhwh speaks of "my messenger" who is "the Lord
whom you are seeking (ha'adon, elsewhere an alternative for Yhwh)"
suddenly coming to his temple (3:1), and Isa 9:5/6 speaks of the divine
child born to the house of David called 'el gibbor (a name of Yhwh in
Isa 10:21).

Greg Stafford wrote:
>The implied predicate in Jesus' other EGW EIMI sayings (both in the 
>Synoptics >and in the Fourth Gospel) is almost always "Messiah" or "Son of 
>Man" (see, for >example, John 4:26; 8:28; Mark 14:62 [Luke 22:70]; compare 
>Mark 13:6 [Luke >21:8] with Matthew 24:5), and there may be a similar 
>predicate implied in John >8:58.

I'm in general agreement with this but I think there is a problem with
"Son of Man/Messiah" as predicate in John 8:58 - Jesus is not "Son of
Man" until he takes on human nature.  Two things are striking about egw
eimi in John 8:58 - one is that there is no predicate (when there is no
predicate it leads to the question "*Who* are you?" as in John 8:25). 
Secondly, he does not say, "before Abraham existed, I was" (which is
what I assume he would say if he merely wanted to state his
pre-existence in agreement with Micah 5:1/2).  Thus there is use of a
"present" construction (I am he), with past time.

In Isa 43:13 Yhwh says "From the day (miyyom), I am he," mixing past and
present, and in 46:4 Yhwh says "even in your old age, I am he" mixing
the
"present" (I am he) with a future reference.  In John 8:58 Jesus mixes
the present with the past.  Perhaps then the reason there is no
predicate in John
8:58 is that the answer to the question "Who are you?" is "I am the one
who says `I am he'" in the Hebrew Scriptures; i.e. Yhwh.

Rolf also wrote:
>as far as Hebrew is concerned, is that past, present and future are 
>pragmatic >factors, and that tense  is not a  semantic part of any verb form.

I agree and therefore there is no need to translate 'ehyeh in Exod 3:14
as restricted to the future.  The habitual present (I was/am/will be
what I was/am/will be) works quite well and agrees with Isa 43:13 and
46:4 "I am he in the past, present, and future."

So, with all due respect for your considerable study on this subject, I
would still say yes, John 8:58 has Exod 3:14 as a reference.


Best regards,

John Ronning