Biblical Hebrew Forum

[James Trimm <jstrimm AT swbell.net>]

At 02:01 AM 12/26/98 EST, GregStffrd AT aol.com wrote:
><< > Dear Eric:
> >
> > Could you please explain what you mean, exactly? ANWQEN in regularly used
>in
> > translating 'al and ma'al in the LXX, and I do not see any problem with an
> > original Hebrew/Aramaic discussion between Jesus and Nicodemus, which
later
> > was translated into Greek.
> >
> > Of course, it really does not matter either way (see below), but it might
>be
> > good if you could further articulate your point about the perceived
>"wordplay"
> > that is allegedly not possible in Hebrew/Aramaic.
> 
>^^^Greg:
> 
> The point that is often made about the dialogue between Jesus and Nicodemus,
>as I
> understand it, is that it involves Nicodemus' thinking Jesus meant "born
>AGAIN"
> when he meant "born FROM ABOVE." What I have been made to understand is that
>there is no single word in Aramaic or Hebrew which can have both these
>meanings - i.e., "again" and "above" - as ANWQEN does in Greek. ^^^^
>
>
>Dear Eric:
>
>Thank you for further explaining your point. I think it is very interesting,
>and I am now checking through first century literature to see if a similar
>(double) use of ANWQEN can be found. Of course, if what you say is valid, and
>it is certainly possible, then it might be another example of a Johannine
>"double meaning." 
>
>However, I do not see anything in the context of John 3:3 that requires a
>double meaning for ANWQEN in this passage. It seems that the meaning "above"
>is well suited in this context where Jesus speaks of a special kind of
>"birth," namely, from "water and spirit" (John 3:5) and this would naturally
>involve a second "birth." 
>
>If we take ANWQEN in 3:3 as a translation of Jesus' original words, meaning
>"above," then we can see how Nicodemus would have understood Jesus as
speaking
>of a birth other than the one from the womb. Thus, even if ANWQEN does not
>have the meaning "again" in this passage, "again" is implied due to the
>reference to a second birth.
>
>But ANWQEN may in fact simply mean "again" in verses 3 and 7, and thus Jesus'
>original words may have simply meant "again," ANWQEN being used in this sense
>to translate his original words. 
>
>
>^^^^ Hence, for Nicodemus to think Jesus
>     meant "again" when Jesus meant "above" suggests that Jesus was
talking to
>     him in Greek, using ANWQEN, since such confusion would not result if
>Jesus 
>     had been speaking Aramaic or Hebrew. ^^^^
>
>
>Yes, but it could be that ANWQEN is used to translate Jesus' Hebrew/Aramaic
>words about having to be born "again," without explicit reference to "above,"
>though his reference to "spirit" in John 3:5 might imply the supernatural
>(above) birth. 
>
>Again, thank you for highlighting this possible double meaning for ANWQEN in
>John 3:3.
>
>Greg Stafford
> 
>

The Aramaic (Peshitta and Old Syriac) has MITILED MIN DRESH

literally: "born from the head" i.e. born from the beginning/born again or
born from the top/born from above.


What does "born again" mean?

3:1  THERE WAS A MAN OF THE PHARISEES NAMED NICODEMUS, A RULER
OF THE JEWS - Probably Nakdimon ben Gorion one of the three leading
councellors in Jerusalem.  According to the Talmud he was wealthy enough to
feed the entire city for ten years (b.Gittin 56a).  One rather lenghthy
Talmud story tells us that once, during a drought, Nakdimon made a deal
with a Roman General so as to procure twelve wells of water for the Jewish
people.  According to the story, Nakdimon promised the General
to repay him either twelve wells or twelve talents of silver (a tidey sum)
before the expiration of one year.  On the last day of the year it still
had not rained, so Nakdimon went to the Temple to pray.  His prayer was
answered and it began to rain and refill the wells.  The Roman General,
however, demanded the silver, saying that the cloud-cover had caused the
day, and thus the year, to expire prematurely.  Nakdimon
returned to the Temple and prayed again, this time the clouds removed and
the sun shined out, thus the General was satisfied. (b.Ta'anit 19b-20a)
the Talmud also tells us that "Nakdimon" was only his nick-name and that
his real name was Buni (b.Ta'anit 20a).  The Talmud also reletes that a
certain Buni was a student of Yeshua of Nazareth and was himself martyred
sometime after Yeshua's death (b.San. 43a).  The Talmud suggests that the
nickname Nakdimon was taken from NAKAD meaning "to shine" "because the sun
shined out for him" (b.Ta'anit 20a).  A more likely source is NAKI DAM
"innocent of the blood" based upon his actions recorded in Jn. 7:45-52;
19:39.  The Greek equivelant name Nicodemus has a meaning all of its own
NIKOS DEMOS "victorious people".  There would be no reason for Buni to have
this Greek name as a nickname, but the sound-alike Greek name may have been
used by the Roman
occupiers in there dealings with this very wealthy man, as the Talmud does
record that he had dealings with the Roman General stationed at Jerusalem
(b.Ta'anit 19b-20a).

3:3 BORN AGAIN -  The idea behind such an expresion can be found in the
Talmud "...a proselyte is like a newborn infant."
(b.Yevamot 62a; see also b.Yevamot 48b).

3:5-6 BORN OF WATER AND THE SPIRIT... BORN OF THE FLESH... BORN OF THE
SPIRIT - Yeshua ties this in as an elaboration of the previous phrase "born
again."  Here Yeshua is refering to a Tenach passage (Ezekiel 36:24-28)
which reads:

                For I will take you from among the nations,
                gather you out of all countries
                and bring you into your own Land

                Then I will sprinkle clean WATER on you,
                and you shall be clean;
                I will cleanse you from all your filthiness
                and from all your idols.

                I will give you a new heart
                and put a new SPIRIT within you;
                I will take he heart of stone out of your flesh
                and give you a heart of FLESH.

                I will put My SPIRIT within you
                and cause you to walk in My statutes,
                and you will keep My judgements and do them.

                Then you shall dwell in the Land that I gave to you fathers;
                you shall be my people,
                and I will be your God.

ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD -  the "Kingdom of God"
is a Tenach euphamism for the Kingdom of Israel (as in 1Chron. 28:5;
2Chron. 13:8).  Thus in order to enter the Kingdom and be regathered to the
Land, the Jewish people would have to be born of water (made clean), born
of flesh (recieve a heart of flesh rather than stone) and recieve the
Spirit of God so as to walk in the statutes.

3:8 THE WIND BLOWS - In the Aramaic this is a word play, as the word for
Spirit RUCHA can also mean "wind" and is the word used for wind here. This
gives the double meaning "The Spirit blows...".

3:10 ARE YOU A TEACHER OF ISRAEL, AND DO NOT KNOW THESE THINGS? - These are
things Nakdimon should have known, being a Jewish teacher.  This points
away from the idea that Nakdimon merely misunderstood an idiomatic
expresion.

3:12 IF I HAVE TOLD YOU EARTHLY THINGS AND YOU DO NOT BELIEVE  HOW WILL YOU
BELIEVE IF I TELL YOU HEAVENLY THINGS? - An example of antithetic chiasmus
as well as a clear kol v'chomer statement.  This gives us the very
important information that that which Yeshua has just spoken of, was
earthly rather than heavenly information.  Yeshua was speaking of an
earthly Kingdom.  Since most of John deals with heavenly things, this
Gospel never returns to the subject of the Kingdom.  John's theme is Yeshua
as the source of life and light (enlightenment), not his Kingdom offer.
However, Yeshua's earthly PASHAT teaching of a Kingdom
offer must be grasped before advancing to his heavenly SOD teachings on
life and light.


James Trimm
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