Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Eric Weiss <eweiss AT gte.net>]

GregStffrd AT aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 12/24/98 11:44:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
> eweiss AT gte.net
> writes:
>
> <<Re: the assumption that Jesus spoke Hebrew/Aramaic to the Jewish leaders
> (assuming John's gospel transmits to us Jesus' words), I understand that
> the ANWQEN "again/above" wordplay in John 3:3 in Jesus' discussion with
> Nicodemus does not work in Hebrew or Aramaic (i.e, they don't have a single
> word with these two meanings), which suggests that Jesus spoke with
> Nicodemus in Greek >>
>
> Dear Eric:
>
> Could you please explain what you mean, exactly? ANWQEN in regularly used in
> translating 'al and ma'al in the LXX, and I do not see any problem with an
> original Hebrew/Aramaic discussion between Jesus and Nicodemus, which later
> was translated into Greek.
>
> Of course, it really does not matter either way (see below), but it might be
> good if you could further articulate your point about the perceived 
> "wordplay"
> that is allegedly not possible in Hebrew/Aramaic.

Greg:

The point that is often made about the dialogue between Jesus and Nicodemus, 
as I
understand it, is that it involves Nicodemus' thinking Jesus meant "born 
AGAIN"
when he meant "born FROM ABOVE." What I have been made to understand is that 
there
is no single word in Aramaic or Hebrew which can have both these meanings - 
i.e.,
"again" and "above" - as ANWQEN does in Greek. Hence, for Nicodemus to think 
Jesus
meant "again" when Jesus meant "above" suggests that Jesus was talking to him 
in
Greek, using ANWQEN, since such confusion would not result if Jesus had been
speaking Aramaic or Hebrew.


> <<
>  If Jesus spoke Greek, then the LXX translation of Exodus 3:14 as EGW EIMI
>  hO WN might have been the referent for John 8:58 and the other EGW EIMI
>  statements in GJohn. Is that possible?
>   >>
>
> Even if Jesus spoke Greek in John 8:58, it does not seem likely that his use
> of EGW EIMI could in any way relate to the use of the same expression in
> Exodus 3:14 LXX, for in 3:14 it is used as part of a copulative expression,
> while in John 8:58 the present EIMI is used together with an expression of
> past time (PRIN ABRAAM GENESQAI) and thus constitutes an example of the 
> idiom
> know as the Present of Past Action Still in Progress, explaining, in this
> context, how Jesus had seen Abraham: he is a preexistent being; the Jews
> rejected this claim, which in this context also amounted to a claim of
> superiority (priority to) Abraham.
>
> If there is a copulative use of EIMI in John 8:58 the predicate, since it is
> not stated (as it is in Exodus 3:14 [LXX]) must be gathered from the 
> context.
> The implied predicate in Jesus' other EGW EIMI sayings (both in the 
> Synoptics
> and in the Fourth Gospel) is almost always "Messiah" or "Son of Man" (see, 
> for
> example, John 4:26; 8:28; Mark 14:62 [Luke 22:70]; compare Mark 13:6 [Luke
> 21:8] with Matthew 24:5), and there may be a similar predicate implied in 
> John
> 8:58, given the context of his discussion about how Abraham had seen his (=
> the Messiah's [compare Genesis 22:17-18; Galatians 3:16]) "day." It is of
> interest to note how the Jews rejected a similar use of EGW EIMI by Jesus,
> where the implied predicate is clearly, "Christ, Son of the Blessed."---Mark
> 14:60-64.
>
> The high priest's reaction shows that his claim to be the Messiah/Christ/Son
> of the Blessed was rejected, and that a claim to such a sacred office by a 
> man
> whom they believe to be demonized (John 8:48) was to be punished with the
> greatest severity.
>
> Greg Stafford

Perhaps. I'm not sure Jesus' use of EGW EIMI means he was also implying the 
full
grammatical construction of Exodus 3:14. Because Exodus 3:14 uses EGW EIMI, 
it's
"possible" that the "I AM" statements of John's gospel where they are used
absolutely (i.e., without a predicate nominative) refer to Exodus 3:14. I only
know that many pastors/teachers, commentaries, etc., have suggested this. See
Newman and Nida's "A Translator's Handbook on the Gospel of John," UBS, 1980, 
p.
124 for their comments on this (referring to John 4:26).

--
"Eric S. Weiss"
http://home1.gte.net/eweiss/index.htm
eweiss AT gte.net
S.D.G.