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Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum
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- From: GregStffrd AT aol.com
- To: eweiss AT gte.net
- Cc: b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu
- Subject: Re: Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58
- Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:04:18 EST
In a message dated 12/24/98 11:44:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, eweiss AT gte.net
writes:
<<Re: the assumption that Jesus spoke Hebrew/Aramaic to the Jewish leaders
(assuming John's gospel transmits to us Jesus' words), I understand that
the ANWQEN "again/above" wordplay in John 3:3 in Jesus' discussion with
Nicodemus does not work in Hebrew or Aramaic (i.e, they don't have a single
word with these two meanings), which suggests that Jesus spoke with
Nicodemus in Greek >>
Dear Eric:
Could you please explain what you mean, exactly? ANWQEN in regularly used in
translating 'al and ma'al in the LXX, and I do not see any problem with an
original Hebrew/Aramaic discussion between Jesus and Nicodemus, which later
was translated into Greek.
Of course, it really does not matter either way (see below), but it might be
good if you could further articulate your point about the perceived "wordplay"
that is allegedly not possible in Hebrew/Aramaic.
<<
If Jesus spoke Greek, then the LXX translation of Exodus 3:14 as EGW EIMI
hO WN might have been the referent for John 8:58 and the other EGW EIMI
statements in GJohn. Is that possible?
>>
Even if Jesus spoke Greek in John 8:58, it does not seem likely that his use
of EGW EIMI could in any way relate to the use of the same expression in
Exodus 3:14 LXX, for in 3:14 it is used as part of a copulative expression,
while in John 8:58 the present EIMI is used together with an expression of
past time (PRIN ABRAAM GENESQAI) and thus constitutes an example of the idiom
know as the Present of Past Action Still in Progress, explaining, in this
context, how Jesus had seen Abraham: he is a preexistent being; the Jews
rejected this claim, which in this context also amounted to a claim of
superiority (priority to) Abraham.
If there is a copulative use of EIMI in John 8:58 the predicate, since it is
not stated (as it is in Exodus 3:14 [LXX]) must be gathered from the context.
The implied predicate in Jesus' other EGW EIMI sayings (both in the Synoptics
and in the Fourth Gospel) is almost always "Messiah" or "Son of Man" (see, for
example, John 4:26; 8:28; Mark 14:62 [Luke 22:70]; compare Mark 13:6 [Luke
21:8] with Matthew 24:5), and there may be a similar predicate implied in John
8:58, given the context of his discussion about how Abraham had seen his (=
the Messiah's [compare Genesis 22:17-18; Galatians 3:16]) "day." It is of
interest to note how the Jews rejected a similar use of EGW EIMI by Jesus,
where the implied predicate is clearly, "Christ, Son of the Blessed."---Mark
14:60-64.
The high priest's reaction shows that his claim to be the Messiah/Christ/Son
of the Blessed was rejected, and that a claim to such a sacred office by a man
whom they believe to be demonized (John 8:48) was to be punished with the
greatest severity.
Greg Stafford
-
Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58,
GregStffrd, 12/24/1998
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
- Re: Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58, Eric Weiss, 12/24/1998
- Re: Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58, Lewis Reich, 12/24/1998
-
Re: Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58,
GregStffrd, 12/24/1998
- Re: Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58, Eric Weiss, 12/24/1998
- Re: Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58, Lewis Reich, 12/25/1998
- Re: Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58, Rolf Furuli, 12/25/1998
-
Re: Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58,
GregStffrd, 12/25/1998
- Re: Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58, Lewis Reich, 12/25/1998
- Re: Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58, GregStffrd, 12/25/1998
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