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  • From: "John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Maintaining the standards of permaculture -important issues
  • Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 22:25:49 +0100


Then again, http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/05/03-3
john

:-) Thank you, Toby, for your kind reply - you produce NO arguments though, so here are some links, so you can read up:-)

1. Destructive man made climate change - http://www.globalwarminghysteria.com/ten-myths-of-global-warming/

2. Overpopulation - http://overpopulationisamyth.com/

3. Viruses - http://www.virusmyth.org/

4. Pasteur - http://www.whale.to/a/lost_history_of_medicine.html

best regards
Øystein




--- Den tor 2012-05-03 skrev Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>:

Fra: Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
Emne: Re: [permaculture] Maintaining the standards of permaculture - important issues
Til: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Dato: Torsdag 3. mai 2012 13.37
On May 3, 2012, at 2:18 AM, Oystein
Tandberg wrote:

> I don't want to make this a long e-mail; so I'll just
jump to the conclusions:
>
Sure, I'll fall for it. Anyone who reads my stuff knows I
love ideas that overturn the conventional wisdom. And I've
looked at all the evidence for these statements before, in
detail, because I am naturally sympathetic to revisionism.
They are each nonsense.

> 1. Humans are not in charge of the climate (so the
permaculture response

While it is literally true that no one is in charge of the
climate, those words are a soundbite straight from
corporate-funded think tanks. Not being a climate scientist,
I must rely on experts here, and I tend to side with 99% of
the world's climate scientists rather than a handful of
oil-company mouthpieces making zombie statements that will
not die when disproved. Follow the money: the
anti-climate-change propagandists work for the carbon
industry.

> 2. Exponential human growth (overpopulation) is a myth.


The human population is doubling at decreasing intervals.
That is, by definition, exponential growth, so this
statement is mathematically ignorant. As for it being a
problem, population growth is now being sustained by fossil
fuel-based food. Maybe we'll find something else as oil runs
out, but we are already seeing huge declines in food yields
from overuse of soils (I did population genetics work for a
while; I recognize the signs of overpopulation.) Maybe
having one species use 40% of the Earth's annual production
is sustainable, but if population doubles again, so does
that number. Anyone who doesn't think human impact is a
problem should start drinking from the nearest river, and
see how long you live. I suggest a great video called
"Arithmetic, Population, and Energy" as a good look at what
population growth means.
http://www.albartlett.org/presentations/arithmetic_population_energy_video1.html

These last two are way off topic, but they are fun for me.

> 3. Viruses, as infectious microorganisms, is a myth.

Now we're in my field. I did immunology and genetics
research for 15 years. I have used viruses to cause
infections in otherwise healthy organisms. Their entire
genetic machinery is designed to infect; their genes have
been independently used to cause infections, and to do
everything needed to infect healthy organisms. They are
little miracles, cleverly designed to cause infection
because it they cannot reproduce without infecting a host;
it's their raison d'etre. Also, it's difficult to explain
how a killed virus can confer immunity against a live virus,
even in very unhealthy people, without viruses being a cause
of infection.

> 4. Pasteur was wrong - an infection is always a
secondary illness; infections arise after tissue has been
damaged, by malnutrition or intoxication. (PR: enrich the
blood for good health, like you would enrich the soil for
good growth)

People who say this have not read Pasteur. He was not
"wrong." He knew that otherwise healthy organisms throw off
infections much faster than sick ones. And I'd be careful
with statements that include the word "always."

I suggest getting into the best shape possible and then
letting an Ebola-sick monkey spray blood on you, or stay in
a room dusted with with hanta-virus mouse turds. It may
change your mind about viruses.

These arguments take advantage of the fact that most people
have not been taught to do critical thought, and get sucked
in by fallacious bits of sophistry that match their politics
and temperament, since they don't have the mental tools to
properly evaluate them. As Dick Cheney reportedly said, "you
can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are
the ones we're looking for." Like I say, I love to upset the
conventional wisdom, but promoting these dead-wrong, zombie
arguments can do real harm to real people.

Now back to the important stuff.

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com


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