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  • From: "Lynda" <lurine AT com-pair.net>
  • To: <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Homestead] Let's Hash This Out..
  • Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:44:23 -0800

I think where we part paths on the political spectrum is probably in how we were raised. The whole respect thing is one of them. "Respect your elders." Grampa said the original quote, at least in our culture was "Respect the wisdom of your elders." No wisdom, no respect simply becuase someone managed to reach an advanced age.

Or respect because someone, through trickery or other shinnigans has managed to get elected to a high office we are then somehow required to respect them.

As to patriotism, I don't hink it has a whole lot to do with people or the offices they may or may not hold. It is simply and foremost love of country.

As to presidents and other politicians, I'm going with Theodore Roosevelt "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

I'll get tot he rest of this tomorrow. I'm tired. Youngest and I just spent a week at the fair and I'm pooped! I'm off to be early!

Lynda
The press corp is fact-adverse but very fable friendly.

----- Original Message ----- From: "EarthNSky" <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>


I wrote the post about Democrats the other day hoping that someone would
respond to my questions. When I ask what Obama accomplishment I can be
proud of, I'm seriously asking-it's not a rhetorical or smug question.
I try to always see the silver lining. I try to see the best in people.
I *try* to find the good. I am patriotic, as you know, moreso
apparently than a lot of you judging from past conversations, and I have
respect for ANY US president, including President Obama, because the
will of the majority placed them in office, and I have to abide by that.
That is part of what patriotism means to me, to be supportive of our
country's leadership whether we have a Bush-like president or an
Obama-like president. Patriotism, among other things, also means that
I should be critical, and ever-vigilant to watch for abuses of power.
Like Lynda said, it was easy with Bush, who wasn't polished at all, but
with Obama, you really have to watch and pay attention.

President Obama is still hugely popular and I know many of you admire
him, so I am trying to understand that and see whether or not you
have any disappointment or questions about how his Presidency is going.
I'm sure there are things he has done that are good. I'm sure there is
good. I cheered when he announced he would close the camps at Gitmo,
but that hasn't happened and is now unlikely to happen anytime soon. He
made so many promises, surely he has kept one or two so far?

When we talk about things like this, I learn so much from you guys.
Positive things happen when there is lively debate on this list. I grow
as a person. I consider myself a lifetime learner and this list has,
for the last 15 years, fed my need to educate myself. I was never
interested in politics or economics before I came here. I've been here
15 years and deleted those kind of posts for the first 7 years. Slowly,
I've become more interested. There was a time when I thought it would
all be irrelevant in a few years time. I don't think that way anymore.
Now, the power plays and relationships intrigue me. I like trying to
guess what will happen next, like who will win and be sole Survivor. :)

I've been wondering why no one is talking about the implications of
President Obama's appointments and how that might affect change. Our
country's founding fathers envisioned our system to be one where there
would be an exchange of ideas and hearty, vigorous, impassioned debate
about those ideas, even if the debate became raw or ugly, like it
sometimes does here. I just wish we could stop the mischaracterization,
the hyperbole, the throwing out the baby with the bathwater, and the
inflammatory slander. Perhaps we could start by agreeing to respect the
current AND former Presidents and staff, regardless of our personal
feelings as to their character. We could omit the name calling and
nicknames and be more distinct in our blame than just naming the
president in office at the time. If the problem is the CIA, then we say
the CIA under the first President Bush, or the CIA during President
Obama's Administration or the FBI under Reno's helm, etc. Perhaps we
need to eliminate the broad characterizations and be more specific. To
label all Conservatives as the Religious Right would be inaccurate. To
label all Liberals who support President Obama's healthcare plan as
Socialists or Communists or whatever is also unfair. Likewise, all those
who supported Bush are not Fascist. We are mature, intelligent adults
and I think we can talk about things like this....I WANT to talk about
things like this...I would LOVE to see a serious, non-conspiracy minded
discussion about the possible influence of people like Frank Davis on
our President. Assuming there is influence at all, is it a good thing
or a bad thing? I like to learn about cause and effect. I just read
this article
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/28/senate-president-emergency-control-internet/?test=latestnews
and I am trying to figure out how this can be a good thing. Where is the
ACLU on this? There are all kinds of stories that I would like to see
discussed here.

The other day, on Facebook, Lee posted a satirical link that well, I
don't know how to describe it, but it was about Socialist Fire
Departments-playing off the Socialist Healthcare fearmongering. (and
Lee, I'm assuming that if you don't want me to air this, you will edit
this out of my post) It was quite funny and ingenious, making the point
opposite of the way I feel on the matter. I laughed about it with her
and told her that I am quite proud that I have a very, very diverse
group of Facebook friends and real life friends. When someone whom I
respect, like Lee, posts something like this, it gives me pause to think
that perhaps I have missed something on this issue. I read opposing
views with the hope that I learn something that either forms, challenges
or reinforces my own belief. I am definitely not set in my ways, just
at a point in my life that I am starting to pay more attention and
really attempt to make a stand on things like torture or healthcare, IF
I can gather enough information to make a decision. I've always relied
on this list for that.

Bev

--
Sleep well tonight, for somewhere in the ocean's depths, MY son is
protecting your freedom on the USS Key West, currently deployed
somewhere in the Pacific and/or Indian Ocean. Go Navy!
EarthNSky Farm, NW Georgia, USA

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