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  • From: "David A. Reed" <da.reed AT utoronto.ca>
  • To: Corpus-Paul <corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Corpus-Paul] Voluntary Associations and the Pauline Church
  • Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 21:49:12 -0400

Zeba,

The reason that I ask is because I'm confused on the subject. I've talked to a lot of prof's at U of T and at TST (I think the places you went) and not everyone is convinced by the VA thesis. But, everyone seems to just offer an opinion such as, "Yeah... I don't agree with it..." When I press on with things such as, "Okay, so where do I go to read a response back to the hypothesis that supposedly refutes the previous hypothesis," I get little to no answer... Just something like, "I don't know, somebody must have written something by now..." So that's why I'm asking... "Where is the somebody who's written something by now?"

I mean... I thought the point of doctoral work was to learn to ask questions and then question the questions, but I can hardly go on "I don't know, somebody must have written something by now..." So, I thought I'd ask the larger world of Pauline scholars if somebody has actually written something by now... If Ascough, Harland, Kloppenborg, and Wilson have refuted Meeks, I'm just wondering why so many scholars still say, "Well, I think Meeks still has some good points and hasn't been entirely refuted..." Of course, this is all given 'word of mouth', and having slugged through 3 years of my doctorate all ready, I do know that "word of mouth" doesn't cut it in an environment that needs the "written word" or at least something in a journal article somewhere...

Do I disapprove? Yes and no... for the moment, I've read Meeks, I've read Ascough, Harland, and Kloppenborg, and before I make my final decision I'm curious to see if there's a response to the VA thesis... Since things often "cycle" in academic circles, I suppose there will eventually be a response... But, yes, you're right, not enough time has elapsed for there to be an adequate response--if one will ever come...

David

Zeba Crook wrote:
David,

In my limited experience, things don't move that quickly: Harland's and Ascough's books are only a couple of years old and are still in the journal review stage. Does your question reflect that you disapprove of the hypothesis and feel like someone ought to have refuted it by now? Am I reading too much into your post?

Zeb


David A. Reed wrote:


Speaking of the whole VA debate and Meeks versus Kloppenborg and Kloppenborg's students such as Phil Harland and R. Ascough, has Meeks ever responded to the idea that the Pauline communities are more like VA's than synagogues? Has anyone else tried to refute what Kloppenborg and his students have tried to say about all of this?

David Reed
Regis College, U of Toronto

peterson AT austingrad.edu wrote:
I am preparing to begin a seminar on Social Science Interpretation of
the
New Testament with Dr Carolyn Osiek at Brite Divinity School and want
to
focus my study on the influence of Greco-Roman Voluntary Associations
on
the
formation of the Pauline Church. Does any have suggestions on
resources
for
such a study?
I'd suggest Wayne Meeks's First Urban Christians (esp. pp. 13, 31–32,
77–79, 84, 158), still a basic discussion, which can be refined via
reference to John S. Kloppenborg, ed., Voluntary Associations in the
Greco-Roman World, and also Dennis Smith's From Symposium to Eucharist.

Best wishes!

Jeff Peterson
Austin Graduate School of Theology
Austin, Texas
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--
Pax,

David

Regis College, University of Toronto
15 St. Mary Street
Toronto, Ontario
M4Y 2R5
(416) 481-9593

e-mail: da.reed AT utoronto.ca

homepage: http://www.individual.utoronto.ca/dareedhmpg

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-----------------------------
Z.A. Crook
Assistant Professor, Religion
Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive
Ottawa, ON, K1S 5B6
613-520-2600, ext. 2276
www.carleton.ca/~zcrook
_______________________________________________
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--
Pax,

David

Regis College, University of Toronto
15 St. Mary Street
Toronto, Ontario
M4Y 2R5
(416) 481-9593

e-mail: da.reed AT utoronto.ca

homepage: http://www.individual.utoronto.ca/dareedhmpg





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