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  • From: "Giorgos Cheliotis" <giorgos AT smu.edu.sg>
  • To: <commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Commons-research] Commons-research Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14
  • Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 02:31:02 +0800

Melanie, I think it's good to keep some focus on what is otherwise a pretty
broad agenda for the workshop. So, "other related topics" is actually implied
by stating that the list of topics is not exhaustive but rather only
indicative. I hope this answers your question.

________________________________

From: commons-research-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of melanie dulong
de rosnay
Sent: Wed 3/26/2008 2:01 AM
To: commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [Commons-research] Commons-research Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14




On the CfP, has the possibility of adding a bullet point in the list
of topics for "other related topics (open science, public sector
information, open education...)" been already discussed?

On the authorization, maybe a pragmatic solution could be to propose
iCommons licensing policy by default, with an opt-out for those who
don't want/are not able to?

Best,
Melanie

Le 25 mars 08 à 11:45, Giorgos Cheliotis a écrit :

> Good points indeed, maybe it is not much to ask for after all...
> but I think it is clear from the responses thus far that we are
> arguing for forcing a CC-BY on everyone who wants to have the
> privilege of presenting at the isummit, implying that such people
> MUST be friends of free culture, thus automatically excluding
> people who are not from presenting at the workshop. There goes my
> wish for a neutral point of view.
>
> Let's now think about someone who is not a friend of CC or is just
> not a friend of CC-BY (let's not forget that only a small fraction
> of CC-licensed items are licensed under this license, so it is
> actually not really popular). That person will most likely be put
> off by the restriction that he/she has to use CC-BY. What if for
> example the paper is about how CC BY sucks and one should not use
> it? And, in any case, why should we attempt to force this person to
> use CC BY? The whole spirit of CC, as I understand it, is to
> provide options and educate people on copyright issues, not to
> force a particular stance on licensing. Now, icommons as an
> organization may have specific policies in place which are designed
> for icommons and the community. I respect that. The workshop
> however, is not purely for internal consumption and we really want
> to reach out to everyone who may disagree with what icommons stands
> for but can express this disagreement in a serious and well-founded
> manner.
>
> So, in conclusion, I propose that for this too we use an opt-out
> approach as some of you have suggested (or hinted at). I believe it
> should be spelled out explicitly in the CFP: It is CC-BY with an
> opt-out option, and it is easy to opt-out if one desires. This way
> we can make "free" the default, but not prejudice anyone who may
> not be ready to be as "free" as others, for practical reasons as
> Tyng-Ruey mentioned, or for ideological reasons. (As a side-
> thought, it may be that a "partisan research workshop" is not an
> entirely bad idea, but I'd rather stick with a non-partisan one
> that tries to maintain a neutral point of view.)
>
> I hope the above is acceptable as a compromise and is not seen as a
> huge deviation from the main policy of the summit, as it only
> differs in the inclusion of an opt-out option. By the way, I use CC-
> BY for my presentations :) and I will often argue about why an
> academic will benefit from doing the same, but I don't want to
> force that stance upon everyone else.
>
> Giorgos
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: commons-research-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of
> Prodromos Tsiavos
> Sent: Tue 3/25/2008 7:03 PM
> To: commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [Commons-research] Commons-research Digest, Vol 2,
> Issue 14
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> I would side with Alek on this one. Conditioning participation upon
> a (non
> exclusive) open licensing scheme is a really thin requirement and
> it is in
> accordance to the iSummit's character as an event that promotes
> open/free
> culture. If some speakers are not willing to subscribe to such a
> policy we
> could individually assess the case, but not amend the open access
> policy
> overall. Allowing closed licensing schemes is contrary to the
> event's nature
> and poses the risk of diluting its identity.
>
> Thanks for your time :)
>
> best,
> pRo
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alek Tarkowski" <alek AT creativecommons.pl>
> To: <commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 10:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [Commons-research] Commons-research Digest, Vol 2,
> Issue 14
>
>
>> Dear Giorgos,
>>
>> I am not sure that I agree that there is such a specificity to the
>> Research Workshop and that furthermore out of the need for what
>> you call
>> respect as a venue for scientific discourse we need a special
>> licensing
>> scheme.
>>
>> I think that there is a place in the iSummit at large, and not
>> just at
>> the workshop, for those critical of our mission. At the same time
>> a free
>> licensing requirement is in my opinion not some extravagant, radical
>> concept - and most importantly, it does not constrain the
>> expression of
>> any critical arguments. Personally I consider it a quite formal and
>> quite minimal requirement (of course, I'm biased!). But maybe it's
>> good
>> to face those weary of free licensing to weight the pros and cons: if
>> they are studying the commons, it should be worthwhile for them to
>> attend, even at the price of giving in to this licensing model.
>>
>> I think we should be careful with the extent to which we pull out
>> of the
>> model accepted for the summit at large in the name of scientific
>> specificity. I would like to think that Open Science is an important
>> part of the commons movement - which proves that the free culture
>> model
>> can mix well with rules of scientific discourse / conduct.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Alek
>>
>>
>>
>> Giorgos Cheliotis wrote:
>>> Thanks James,
>>>
>>> the only part from the link you sent which is relevant and actually
>>> important for the research track is the licensing part which
>>> requires
>>> that all submissions be licensed under CC BY 3.0. I am personally
>>> undecided on this one. A common practice in academic circles
>>> would be
>>> that the author agrees in advance that the submission will be
>>> published
>>> in a specific manner (online open access in this case), but without
>>> additional requirements on the public licensing of the content. I
>>> understand that licensing under CC is fitting for the isummit,
>>> but I'd
>>> hate to miss out on potentially very good submissions from folks
>>> who for
>>> a variety of reasons don't want to use this license.
>>>
>>> You see, as I explained in my last email, the iSummit as a whole
>>> may have
>>> a mission of promoting CC/free culture, but the Research Workshop
>>> needs
>>> to maintain some degree of neutrality and be open to all
>>> viewpoints, if
>>> it is to be respected as a venue for scientific discourse. So,
>>> yes to
>>> open access, and the proceedings will be published online, but is
>>> it wise
>>> to try and force a CC-BY on everyone?
>>>
>>> I do not have the answer to this. I'm just wary of adding
>>> "agenda-motivated" constraints to the research workshop, even if I
>>> personally support that agenda.
>>>
>>> Giorgos
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: commons-research-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of James
>>> Cairns
>>> Sent: Tue 3/25/2008 1:31 PM
>>> To: commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Commons-research] Commons-research Digest, Vol 2,
>>> Issue 14
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are terms and conditions here
>>> <http://www.icommons.org/isummit08/submissions-terms-and-
>>> conditions/> -
>>> have a look at the licensing section at the bottom as this is
>>> what may
>>> have an effect on your discussion. I agree with what Giorgos says
>>> below
>>> about getting people outside of the commons to take part...
>>>
>>> Giorgos Cheliotis wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't know whether the iSummit/iCommons have a policy on this,
>>>> but
>>>> let's remember that the research track, like any research
>>>> workshop/conference hopes to attract people beyond the "usual
>>>> suspects"
>>>> of CC/icommons circles and some degree of flexibility may be
>>>> warranted.
>>>>
>>>> By that I mean that if we have a great submission by someone who is
>>>> highly critical of CC and let's say he/she is also very
>>>> skeptical when
>>>> it comes to open access, but is making a strong case for his/her
>>>> position and that position is backed by some solid research,
>>>> then this
>>>> may be a person we will want to have presenting at the research
>>>> track.
>>>> So, I guess all I'm saying is let's try to reach out beyond the
>>>> community and give people the flexibility to present their
>>>> research as
>>>> they wish, within some commonly accepted bounds. Some kind of
>>>> speaker
>>>> agreement may be a suitable tool for this purpose.
>>>> <http://pml.wikidot.com/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: commons-research-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of
>>>> Jessica
>>>> Coates
>>>> Sent: Tue 3/25/2008 10:02 AM
>>>> To: commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Commons-research] Commons-research Digest, Vol 2,
>>>> Issue 14
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We can presumably have some kind of speaker agreement, that asks
>>>> them to
>>>> indicate whether they are happy for their materials to be made
>>>> available, and if so how.
>>>>
>>>> Unless the iSummit has a global policy on this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jessica Coates
>>>> Project Manager
>>>> Creative Commons Clinic
>>>> Queensland University of Technology
>>>>
>>>> ph: 07 3138 8301
>>>> fax: 07 3138 9598
>>>> email: j2.coates AT qut.edu.au
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: commons-research-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>>> [mailto:commons-research-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> commons-research-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 25 March 2008 3:21 AM
>>>> To: commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>>> Subject: Commons-research Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14
>>>>
>>>> Send Commons-research mailing list submissions to
>>>> commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of Commons-research digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Re: (almost) final CFP (Giorgos Cheliotis)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:45:41 +0800
>>>> From: "Giorgos Cheliotis" <giorgos AT smu.edu.sg>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Commons-research] (almost) final CFP
>>>> To: <commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>
>>>> <FA3090E732DC6A4EB8E2D875EEB486A58C4515 AT EX01.staff.smu.edu.sg>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>
>>>> Good point, so far we make it clear that the extended abstracts
>>>> will be
>>>> published online, but haven't specified anything for the
>>>> presentation
>>>> slides. People will be likely making last-minute edits to their
>>>> slides
>>>> shortly before they present, so this would be something I would
>>>> prefer
>>>> to bring up during the workshop.
>>>>
>>>> Also, some researchers may not want to share their slides, for
>>>> example
>>>> if these contain very early results, so I think we could bring
>>>> this up
>>>> during the workshop and discuss possible objections to this, if
>>>> any. I
>>>> support open access, but I'm also sensitive to the reasons why some
>>>> people may not want to make all their presentation material
>>>> publicly
>>>> available, so perhaps we can have an opt-out system where open
>>>> access to
>>>> presentation files is the default and if someone wants to opt
>>>> out they
>>>> can express this during the workshop.
>>>>
>>>> Sounds reasonable?
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: commons-research-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Gavin
>>>> Baker
>>>> Sent: Mon 3/24/2008 12:22 AM
>>>> To: commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Commons-research] (almost) final CFP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> May I suggest that the CFP include a statement that accepted
>>>> researchers
>>>> will be expected to provide a copy of their presentation for free
>>>> distribution online?
>>>>
>>>> I think it is valuable to be explicit and up-front about open
>>>> access; in
>>>> this way, open access becomes the norm.
>>>>
>>>> Giorgos Cheliotis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> please take a look at the *latest and almost final CFP*. This will
>>>>> debut
>>>>> soon on the icommons site but first I want to pass it through
>>>>> all of
>>>>> you
>>>>> quickly to check for mistakes and ask for your general feedback.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jonathan Zittrain has agreed to chair the workshop, and I think
>>>>> he is a
>>>>> wonderful fit for that role. As his bandwidth is limited I will
>>>>> help
>>>>> him
>>>>> as co-chair and for now I'm still the main driver of the CFP in
>>>>> any
>>>>> case. I have also asked Tyng-Ruey Chuang to co-chair given his
>>>>> excellent
>>>>> organization of the Asian Commons meeting this year and his
>>>>> links to
>>>>> the
>>>>> broader Asian academic community. As he has recent hands-on
>>>>> experience
>>>>> with organizing a very successful workshop and the iSummit this
>>>>> year
>>>>> will be in Asia, I thought that Tyng-Ruey will be of great
>>>>> assistance,
>>>>> and indeed he has already started contributing greatly.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is some more additions to the academic program committee, to
>>>>> increase international representation and the mix of senior vs
>>>>> more
>>>>> junior scholars. Please do check that your name and affiliation
>>>>> are
>>>>> correct and appear where they should.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope that the above arrangement and the text in the CFP is
>>>>> acceptable
>>>>> by most, if not by all. Do send any comments that you may have.
>>>>> Plans
>>>>> for the speed-geeking session are also underway.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please also note in the CFP under "Workshop Format" a short
>>>>> paragraph suggesting that members of the academic program
>>>>> committee
>>>>> will
>>>>> be able to submit work as well, but will be subject to the same
>>>>> review
>>>>> process and their participation in the committee will not
>>>>> guarantee
>>>>> acceptance.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> best,
>>>>> Giorgos
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ------
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Commons-research mailing list
>>>>> Commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-research
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Gavin Baker
>>>> http://www.gavinbaker.com/
>>>> gavin AT gavinbaker.com
>>>>
>>>> What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble
>>>> causes and
>>>> to make this muddled world a better place for those who will
>>>> live in it
>>>> after we are gone?
>>>> Winston Churchill
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Commons-research mailing list
>>>> Commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-research
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Commons-research mailing list
>>>> Commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-research
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> End of Commons-research Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14
>>>> ***********************************************
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Commons-research mailing list
>>>> Commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-research
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Commons-research mailing list
>>>> Commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-research
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> James Cairns
>>>
>>> maczomba AT mac.com <mailto:maczomba AT mac.com> or james AT icommons.org
>>> <mailto:james AT icommons.org>
>>> +27(0)833003350
>>> skype: maczomba
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Commons-research mailing list
>>> Commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-research
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Commons-research mailing list
>>> Commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-research
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> koordynator / public lead
>> Creative Commons Polska / Poland
>> http://creativecommons.pl <http://creativecommons.pl/>
>> <http://creativecommons.pl/>
>> skype: alektarkowski
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Commons-research mailing list
>> Commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-research
>
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