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  • From: melanie dulong de rosnay <mdulong AT cyber.law.harvard.edu>
  • To: commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [Commons-research] Commons-research Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14
  • Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:01:25 -0400


On the CfP, has the possibility of adding a bullet point in the list of topics for "other related topics (open science, public sector information, open education...)" been already discussed?

On the authorization, maybe a pragmatic solution could be to propose iCommons licensing policy by default, with an opt-out for those who don't want/are not able to?

Best,
Melanie

Le 25 mars 08 à 11:45, Giorgos Cheliotis a écrit :

Good points indeed, maybe it is not much to ask for after all... but I think it is clear from the responses thus far that we are arguing for forcing a CC-BY on everyone who wants to have the privilege of presenting at the isummit, implying that such people MUST be friends of free culture, thus automatically excluding people who are not from presenting at the workshop. There goes my wish for a neutral point of view.

Let's now think about someone who is not a friend of CC or is just not a friend of CC-BY (let's not forget that only a small fraction of CC-licensed items are licensed under this license, so it is actually not really popular). That person will most likely be put off by the restriction that he/she has to use CC-BY. What if for example the paper is about how CC BY sucks and one should not use it? And, in any case, why should we attempt to force this person to use CC BY? The whole spirit of CC, as I understand it, is to provide options and educate people on copyright issues, not to force a particular stance on licensing. Now, icommons as an organization may have specific policies in place which are designed for icommons and the community. I respect that. The workshop however, is not purely for internal consumption and we really want to reach out to everyone who may disagree with what icommons stands for but can express this disagreement in a serious and well-founded manner.

So, in conclusion, I propose that for this too we use an opt-out approach as some of you have suggested (or hinted at). I believe it should be spelled out explicitly in the CFP: It is CC-BY with an opt-out option, and it is easy to opt-out if one desires. This way we can make "free" the default, but not prejudice anyone who may not be ready to be as "free" as others, for practical reasons as Tyng-Ruey mentioned, or for ideological reasons. (As a side- thought, it may be that a "partisan research workshop" is not an entirely bad idea, but I'd rather stick with a non-partisan one that tries to maintain a neutral point of view.)

I hope the above is acceptable as a compromise and is not seen as a huge deviation from the main policy of the summit, as it only differs in the inclusion of an opt-out option. By the way, I use CC- BY for my presentations :) and I will often argue about why an academic will benefit from doing the same, but I don't want to force that stance upon everyone else.

Giorgos

________________________________

From: commons-research-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Prodromos Tsiavos
Sent: Tue 3/25/2008 7:03 PM
To: commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [Commons-research] Commons-research Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14



Dear All,

I would side with Alek on this one. Conditioning participation upon a (non
exclusive) open licensing scheme is a really thin requirement and it is in
accordance to the iSummit's character as an event that promotes open/free
culture. If some speakers are not willing to subscribe to such a policy we
could individually assess the case, but not amend the open access policy
overall. Allowing closed licensing schemes is contrary to the event's nature
and poses the risk of diluting its identity.

Thanks for your time :)

best,
pRo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alek Tarkowski" <alek AT creativecommons.pl>
To: <commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Commons-research] Commons-research Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14


Dear Giorgos,

I am not sure that I agree that there is such a specificity to the
Research Workshop and that furthermore out of the need for what you call
respect as a venue for scientific discourse we need a special licensing
scheme.

I think that there is a place in the iSummit at large, and not just at
the workshop, for those critical of our mission. At the same time a free
licensing requirement is in my opinion not some extravagant, radical
concept - and most importantly, it does not constrain the expression of
any critical arguments. Personally I consider it a quite formal and
quite minimal requirement (of course, I'm biased!). But maybe it's good
to face those weary of free licensing to weight the pros and cons: if
they are studying the commons, it should be worthwhile for them to
attend, even at the price of giving in to this licensing model.

I think we should be careful with the extent to which we pull out of the
model accepted for the summit at large in the name of scientific
specificity. I would like to think that Open Science is an important
part of the commons movement - which proves that the free culture model
can mix well with rules of scientific discourse / conduct.

Cheers,

Alek



Giorgos Cheliotis wrote:
Thanks James,

the only part from the link you sent which is relevant and actually
important for the research track is the licensing part which requires
that all submissions be licensed under CC BY 3.0. I am personally
undecided on this one. A common practice in academic circles would be
that the author agrees in advance that the submission will be published
in a specific manner (online open access in this case), but without
additional requirements on the public licensing of the content. I
understand that licensing under CC is fitting for the isummit, but I'd
hate to miss out on potentially very good submissions from folks who for
a variety of reasons don't want to use this license.

You see, as I explained in my last email, the iSummit as a whole may have
a mission of promoting CC/free culture, but the Research Workshop needs
to maintain some degree of neutrality and be open to all viewpoints, if
it is to be respected as a venue for scientific discourse. So, yes to
open access, and the proceedings will be published online, but is it wise
to try and force a CC-BY on everyone?

I do not have the answer to this. I'm just wary of adding
"agenda-motivated" constraints to the research workshop, even if I
personally support that agenda.

Giorgos

________________________________

From: commons-research-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of James
Cairns
Sent: Tue 3/25/2008 1:31 PM
To: commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [Commons-research] Commons-research Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14



There are terms and conditions here
<http://www.icommons.org/isummit08/submissions-terms-and- conditions/> -
have a look at the licensing section at the bottom as this is what may
have an effect on your discussion. I agree with what Giorgos says below
about getting people outside of the commons to take part...

Giorgos Cheliotis wrote:

I don't know whether the iSummit/iCommons have a policy on this, but
let's remember that the research track, like any research
workshop/conference hopes to attract people beyond the "usual suspects"
of CC/icommons circles and some degree of flexibility may be warranted.

By that I mean that if we have a great submission by someone who is
highly critical of CC and let's say he/she is also very skeptical when
it comes to open access, but is making a strong case for his/her
position and that position is backed by some solid research, then this
may be a person we will want to have presenting at the research track.
So, I guess all I'm saying is let's try to reach out beyond the
community and give people the flexibility to present their research as
they wish, within some commonly accepted bounds. Some kind of speaker
agreement may be a suitable tool for this purpose.
<http://pml.wikidot.com/>


________________________________

From: commons-research-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Jessica
Coates
Sent: Tue 3/25/2008 10:02 AM
To: commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [Commons-research] Commons-research Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14



We can presumably have some kind of speaker agreement, that asks them to
indicate whether they are happy for their materials to be made
available, and if so how.

Unless the iSummit has a global policy on this.


Jessica Coates
Project Manager
Creative Commons Clinic
Queensland University of Technology

ph: 07 3138 8301
fax: 07 3138 9598
email: j2.coates AT qut.edu.au

-----Original Message-----
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[mailto:commons-research-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
commons-research-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Tuesday, 25 March 2008 3:21 AM
To: commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Commons-research Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: (almost) final CFP (Giorgos Cheliotis)


------------------------------------------------------------------- ---

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:45:41 +0800
From: "Giorgos Cheliotis" <giorgos AT smu.edu.sg>
Subject: Re: [Commons-research] (almost) final CFP
To: <commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<FA3090E732DC6A4EB8E2D875EEB486A58C4515 AT EX01.staff.smu.edu.sg>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Good point, so far we make it clear that the extended abstracts will be
published online, but haven't specified anything for the presentation
slides. People will be likely making last-minute edits to their slides
shortly before they present, so this would be something I would prefer
to bring up during the workshop.

Also, some researchers may not want to share their slides, for example
if these contain very early results, so I think we could bring this up
during the workshop and discuss possible objections to this, if any. I
support open access, but I'm also sensitive to the reasons why some
people may not want to make all their presentation material publicly
available, so perhaps we can have an opt-out system where open access to
presentation files is the default and if someone wants to opt out they
can express this during the workshop.

Sounds reasonable?

________________________________

From: commons-research-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Gavin
Baker
Sent: Mon 3/24/2008 12:22 AM
To: commons-research AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [Commons-research] (almost) final CFP



May I suggest that the CFP include a statement that accepted researchers
will be expected to provide a copy of their presentation for free
distribution online?

I think it is valuable to be explicit and up-front about open access; in
this way, open access becomes the norm.

Giorgos Cheliotis wrote:


Dear all,

please take a look at the *latest and almost final CFP*. This will
debut
soon on the icommons site but first I want to pass it through all of
you
quickly to check for mistakes and ask for your general feedback.

Jonathan Zittrain has agreed to chair the workshop, and I think he is a
wonderful fit for that role. As his bandwidth is limited I will help
him
as co-chair and for now I'm still the main driver of the CFP in any
case. I have also asked Tyng-Ruey Chuang to co-chair given his
excellent
organization of the Asian Commons meeting this year and his links to
the
broader Asian academic community. As he has recent hands-on experience
with organizing a very successful workshop and the iSummit this year
will be in Asia, I thought that Tyng-Ruey will be of great assistance,
and indeed he has already started contributing greatly.

There is some more additions to the academic program committee, to
increase international representation and the mix of senior vs more
junior scholars. Please do check that your name and affiliation are
correct and appear where they should.

I hope that the above arrangement and the text in the CFP is acceptable
by most, if not by all. Do send any comments that you may have. Plans
for the speed-geeking session are also underway.

Please also note in the CFP under "Workshop Format" a short
paragraph suggesting that members of the academic program committee
will
be able to submit work as well, but will be subject to the same review
process and their participation in the committee will not guarantee
acceptance.


best,
Giorgos


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--
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<mailto:james AT icommons.org>
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