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sm-grimoire - Re: [SM-Grimoire] xfree86

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Subject: Discussion of Spells and Grimoire items

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  • From: Duane Malcolm <d.malcolm AT auckland.ac.nz>
  • To: Eric Sandall <eric AT sandall.us>
  • Cc: sm-grimoire AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [SM-Grimoire] xfree86
  • Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 11:50:35 +1200

I think this xfree86 problem is due to the change over to the new system and not due to the new system itself.

Therefore, it would be wise to work around the problem without changing the plan until the new system is well established.

With the new system I see a future were the stable grimoire will be more stable than the test grimoire and not the otherway around. Because of this more users use the test grimoire which is not right.

I think the updates from devel to test grimoire and from test to stable will be much faster than it is now for most spells. Especially with tinderboxes.

Duane




Eric Sandall wrote:

Scrive Ladislav Hagara <hgr AT vabo.cz>:

Once we have anonymous CVS (and I believe there was a link earlier about
anonymous Perforce access), anyone whom wants to can use packages from

devel,

I am sorry I really do not understand.
Users will have possibility to download devel grimoire by CVS but they will
not have
possibility to download it from codex.sourcemage.org.


Downloading from CVS takes more (conscious) effort than 'scribe add
<grimoire>'
and reinforces the impression that devel is really /devel/ and is a work in
progress, not something we publish for Joe User to use.


And what about listing of devel grimoire on codex.sourcemage.org?
Have "we" really stopped it ?


I believe we've left a devel.tar.bz2 on codex for a little longer, but it is
no
longer being updated (and I think it is just a copy of test.tar.bz2) and it
will
be removed in the near future.


but xfree86 4.3 has been working fine,
otherwise what have you been using?

Now I am using 4.3.0.1 (test grimo).
Several days ago I used 4.3.99.8 and 4.3.99.9 (devel grimo).

But these discussion is not about xfree86.
It can be applied to all spells.


Correct, xfree86 isn't the main issue here, it's the issue that there are some
spells that we, the developers, don't feel 'safe' letting out onto our users'
systems without a little more work and/or testing. These things include
updates
such as gcc, glibc, gettext, db, etc., but not minor version updates to, say,
gnome-terminal, openssh, or even openssl or apache. We will continue to
update
the test grimoire to be the latest versions which we deem to be /safe/ for our
users to upgrade and which will not (in our opinion) make a system unbootable
or
unusable.


Users could have possibility to use spells from devel grimoire, if they want
it.


As I mentioned earlier, soon they will have the possibility (and the may
already, if Perforce offers anonymous access as well) to do so, and one of
them
could release a devel.tar.bz2 for others to download, but we will not; we want
everyone to realize that devel is not for your everyday use and, if you keep
using it, something will break, horribly, and we (the developers) won't be a
shoulder to cry on if that happens. Now, if it happens in test or stable,
we'll
get to work on it right away, but devel is for testing things out and seeing
how
things could be before our users bleed their systems on the edge of software.


- lace -


And, just in case, don't take this personally, I don't mean to be harsh (if I
sound that way), just trying to get our point across. As Hamish has said,
this
has been out in the open for months, with only a few people commenting back. Then was the time to bring your concerns forward, /before/ we implemented it,
not after it's already into effect (which happened after our last developer
meeting, where we [well, those whom showed up] agreed that it is a good idea).

-sandalle







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