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sm-grimoire - Re: [SM-Grimoire] xfree86

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Subject: Discussion of Spells and Grimoire items

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  • From: Hamish Greig <hgreig AT bigpond.net.au>
  • To: sm-grimoire AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [SM-Grimoire] xfree86
  • Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 23:39:28 +1000

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On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 22:06, Ladislav Hagara wrote:
> > Snapshots like xfree86 4.3.99.X will (hopefully) never be available
> > through test grimoire.
>
> I agree test grimoire should not content development snapshots of xfree86.
> But if users want them they should have possibility to use them.
> What about providing of devel gimoire on codex.sourcemage.org again ? :-))
> BTW, I tried both xfree86 4.3.99.8 and 4.3.99.9 from devel grimoire and I
> had not any problems (still I have them in /var/cache/sorcery).
>
> - lace -
>
Correct me if i am wrong but our goal is uptodate stable releases as
frequently as possible.
Having three grimoires and a lack of active developers was severely hindering
this. All our efforts were concentrated on an "extremely fluid" devel
grimoire that was never ready to integrate down to test, because there was
always another gcc or qt-x11 or db or mysql or apache update. This meant test
was not being actively maintained and stable was becoming rapidly out of
date.
By removing the devel grimoire we have not "cheated" our users out of
uptodate
software nor have we restricted their choices. We have simply made some
administrative adjustments to our project. Unfortunately change causes upset
and we are still in the learning stage of this new system.
The Test grimoire WILL become just as uptodate as devel grimoire used to be
but with the added stability given from "devel" now being a short term
bufferzone for volatile changes to be alpha tested before integration into
the general population. There is NO way on earth we could have migrated to
simpleinit if the devel grimoire was publically available. Not in a million
years!
Users now get a more "stable" test grimoire that we are actively
maintaining.
We are fixing bugs and updating versions directly in the test grimoire now
(or will be once everyone becomes comfortable with the new system) allowing
steady progress towards regular stables releases while still having a
"holding yard" for potential system breakers like gcc db mysql glibc and so
on.
And with new tools like prometheus (BSD tinderbox clone) being developed
(Good
work Andrew and Duane!) the transition from test to stable release will be
increasingly simplified and SHORTENED.
Also another point to consider is this, previously we (developers) had
probably three different versions(devel,test,stable) of software in our
sections to manage. We were responsible for ensuring compatibility between
our sections and ALL others (you might never have realised this but this is
still true) . If you do the maths thats a hell of a lot of compatibility to
maintain !
Now we only have two major versions to worry about (test and stable) because
if something is severely incompatible it waits in devel (no-mans-land) until
we are ready to iron out all those problems.
Finally, i originally perceived the idea to change the grimoire structure and
simplify the release cycle but wanted feedback from everyone who was
involved. So I sent out over forty emails(14/07/03) to developers calling for
open discussion. I got 5 replies. Next I posted to sm-admin mail list
(17/7/03) and got 0 replies. Then it was discussed on IRC and i found some
developers were not subscribed to sm-admin so i forwarded the original mail
to them (2 more replies), and later it was posted again to sm-admin as a
topic for discussion on the next developers meeting. At that meeting
(27/07/03) it was discussed and soon after implemented. I think this change
was conducted fairly, honestly and efficiently.
I would not consider making and distributing a devel tarball again. I do not
wish to return to the previous chaos, and have been glad on two occassions
this week already that users were not affected by bugs from active
development in the devel repository. Now, if some users do want to break
their systems they have to try a little harder to do this and hopefully, in
the process become active developers.
I am but a single developer (newcomer at that) and of course would not cause
any fuss if it turned out that the overwhelming silence did not in fact give
consent to this proposal and that the majority of you wanted it reverted to
the old way. I am sure we all have a different definition of "progress".
All discussion/ flames welcome.
Hamish
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