Public SourceMage Discussion List

[Remko van der Vossen <wich AT yuugen.jp>]

And +another gazillion from me

This. This is what I came to SMGL for back then.

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 12:06:12AM +0300, Vlad Glagolev wrote:
> +2000 on this one
> 
> 
> On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 11:38:09 -0600
> Jeremy Blosser <jblosser-smgl AT firinn.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Jan 29, Ismael Luceno [ismael.luceno AT gmail.com] wrote:
> > > On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 17:56:08 -0500
> > > Sukneet Basuta <sukneet AT gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Ismael Luceno
> > > > <ismael.luceno AT gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > We're very far feature-wise from becoming popular. Pre-configuration
> > > > > and sane defaults for unattended usage, and binary packages are a
> > > > > must.
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > Not having that stuff is what I like about Source Mage. There are
> > > > enough distros out there that offer pre-configuration and 'sane'
> > > > defaults. I like that Source Mage has per package build options and
> > > > crazy customization. That's a huge factor to it's appeal IMO. If I
> > > > wanted binary packages with sane defaults, I'd use a binary distro.
> > > <...>
> > > 
> > > It doesn't mean diminishing the customization potential in any way.
> > > 
> > > A lot of software doesn't work right out of the box, or has security
> > > issues. We could at least make sure those services don't get enabled by
> > > default, provide warnings and instructions, and perhaps configuration
> > > examples.
> > > 
> > > None of those would go against our current policies.
> > 
> > Our policy since inception basically has been to promise admins that if
> > they install a spell they will get the same thing they would have gotten 
> > if
> > they'd done 'download; extract; configure; make; make install', unless 
> > they
> > actively tell us they want something different or it's an FHS change.
> > 
> > This is only partly about "customization potential", it is even more about
> > "principle of least surprise".  I switched to SMGL predominantly because I
> > was sick and tired of spending time debugging system issues only to find
> > the problem was some !@%@^& patch some other distro had applied to "fix"
> > something that wasn't broken if some packager's assumption wasn't true.
> > 
> > Packages that don't work when run this way have bugs that should be filed
> > against upstream.  Minimal patches can be applied on our end to fix it, 
> > but
> > only for very critical things that don't work anywhere and don't make
> > assumptions about the state of the system that aren't universal or
> > confirmed.
> > 
> > > That said, if we want to appeal anyone besides hobbyists, we should
> > > consider what the different user profiles expect, and deliver.
> > 
> > First, the distro appeals just fine to professionals, thanks.  SMGL has
> > been the distro facilitating at least millions of dollars of credit card
> > transactions for some pretty large companies whose names you would
> > certainly recognize, some of them "too big to fail".
> > 
> > Really, almost any serious admin who sees it gets it, the problem is just
> > adoption where they work if they can't spend the time to get critical mass
> > of their colleagues interested.  Every project with low name ID has this
> > problem and it's never an easy one to fix, it involves a lot of chickens
> > and eggs.
> > 
> > Second, the goal of this distro has always been to first meet the needs of
> > those that develop it.  Finding ways to get the word out to like-minded
> > people so they'll join us as developers or users is great, changing what
> > we're doing to appeal to people who aren't us is not.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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> > SM-Discuss AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/sm-discuss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Vlad Glagolev <stealth AT tiberian.ru>



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