Public SourceMage Discussion List

["Ethan Grammatikidis" <eekee57 AT fastmail.fm>]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:31:14 -0700, seth AT swoolley.homeip.net said:
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 02:12:22PM +0200, "Andra?? 'ruskie' Levstik"
> wrote:
> > On 14:05:08 2008-07-22 flux <flux AT sourcemage.org> wrote:
> > > "Andra?? 'ruskie' Levstik" (ruskie AT codemages.net) wrote [08.07.22
> > > 07:35]: > 1)
> > > > DETAILS file is aligned on = I propose no tabs in this file as we
> > > > have now:
> > > >   SPELL=foo
> > > > VERSION=bar
> > > >  SOURCE=$SPELL-VERSION
> > > >  
> > > > Tabs here would mess it up
> > > I'm fine with this (it's what we already have anyway).
> > > 
> > > > 2)
> > > > BUILD file when not default tends to be aligned on some conditional
> > > > clauses and end of line with configure and options:
> > > > if [[ foo == bar ]; then
> > > > [tab]./configure --opt1 \
> > > > [tab]            --opt2 \
> > > > [tab]            --opt3 &&
> > > > [tab]make
> > > > fi
> > > >  
> > > > ([tab] means tab and " " space means space... so in the above lines
> > > > there's only one tab...)
> > > There is a new issue that comes up with tabs: not everyone has tabs set
> > > to the same width, so the formatting will be different on different
> > > screens (this is probably the reason for the "no tabs" policy).
> > > Tabspacing can be redefined in the different editors, but I have a
> > > feeling we will end up in a war about tabspacing... "8 is best! No 4 is
> > > best! You're all losers, 2! WTF, 5!" ad nauseum.
> > > 
> > 
> > Irrelevant... since tabs won't be used for alignment... aligning will be
> > done with spaces... SO everything will always look the same just different
> > indentaions... hence why I used [tab]...
> 
> some guy comes through and sees:
> 
> if [[ foo == bar ]; then
>       ./configure --opt1 \
>                   --opt2 \
>                   --opt3 &&
>       make
> fi
> 
> then adds a line with space indenting:
> 
> if [[ foo == bar ]; then
>       ./configure --opt1 \
>                   --opt2 \
>                   --opt3 \
>                     --opt4 &&
>       make
> fi
> 
> doesn't realize you put invisible tabs in there, and now you see the
> diff:
> 
>   if [[ foo == bar ]; then
>       ./configure --opt1 \
>                   --opt2 \
> -                 --opt3 &&
> +                 --opt3 \
> +                     --opt4 &&
>       make
>   fi
> 
> oops, fscked it up, didn't it?
> 
> Tabs are an abomination for code readability of anything but structured 
> data as a delimiter.  I don't care what editor or elixer you're using.

In my view, tabs could be a very powerful tool, but are ruined by a few
people who don't understand them, or perhaps arent' willing to take the
care needed.

> 
> they're invisible at least part of the time, and that's enough to render 
> them useless.

Invisible doesn't have to mean useless. It does mean you may have to
take more care, especially if you're not used to it. Is the extra care
worth it? I hope 

> 
> Having spaces with arbitrary "tab width" is better than using tabs at
> all.
> 
> That being said, anything more than two spaces to offset a control 
> block baseline unless you're aligning with an argument or a syntax 
> structure is overkill.

Two spaces??? TWO spaces??!?? :D The problem here is nothing but
personal, but personal differences are everything here. You, Eric, are
fine with two tabs, I most certainly am not! :) Two tabs to me are a
bare, scant, minimum, hardly readable! 4 spaces seem nice to me, whereas
8 spaces feels like doing the long jump on every other line. I'm not
saying 4 spaces are right at all, I know there are developers who are
much more comfortable with 8, and of course many who are fine with only
2. 

I'm sorry if I'm putting this strongly, but... well let me jump to the
point. If you fix indentation widths you filter out developers based on
an arbitrary detail of their ocular neurology. Tabs may be a teeny bit
uncomfortable, but... well I don't need to express my opinion of
filtering developers based on a arbitrary biological factors, do I?

> 
> Seth
> 
> > 
> > --
> > Andra?? "ruskie" Levstik
> > Source Mage GNU/Linux Games grimoire guru
> > Geek/Hacker/Tinker
> > 
> > Be sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth.
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> -- 
> Seth Alan Woolley     Pacific Green Candidate for Secretary of State
>                                                 http://seth4sos.org/
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-- 
Ethan Grammatikidis