permaculture

[Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com>]

This topic has devolved into something I don't want to be apart of. I liked
Scott's comment. I think I'll pick up the phone and call my friend instead.

On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 2:24 PM, Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Agree wholeheartedly Jason...the box is the Ferris Wheel. Which Mollison
> himself often referred to. Lawrence its a pity you have to wallow to the
> depths of personal attack and abuse rather than constructively put an
> argument or debate together. You wonder why there us little constructive
> intellectual debate on this site or many others. Perhaps you could show
> some leadership and eliminate your personal abuse and insults. That could
> be a good start to build up more comment from the wider membership.
>
> What I am alluding to in suggesting the read of PofTEofZ is it gives us
> another view another perspective in this who;e subject. Rather than keeping
> our heads in the sand like ostriches who then leave there arses exposed to
> be shafted .
>
> What are say often in other circles is wake the F... up. A good site to
> browse over that discusses such broader elements is www.wakeupkiwi.com
> What
> it does is at least open our thinking to options further afield way outside
> of the box Jason. There are a few more I could suggest but they me beyond
> the horizon at this point of time.
>
> Personally I am all for wider debate and trying to interpret what possible
> truths exist rather than morphing to an ostrich or running off to my
> evangelist.
>
> I do look fwd to the ongoing unabated debate, constructively without abuse
> and personal insults. To keep the door open to all so we can all grow in
> consciousness and share that with our students....Steve Hart
>
> Kia ora Ehoa
>
> *Steve Hart*
> *Ecology Architect*
> Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
> and Systems Ecology.​
> Skype: tipenemanawa
> Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
>
>
>
> The Permaculture International College
> www.permaculture <http://www.permaculturecollege.eu>education.com
> https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
>
>
>
>
>
> On 23 April 2018 at 04:43, Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Scott wrote: "Seems we have lost our focus and are slipping back into the
> > same old paradigm we were fighting to overcome.  The core of permaculture
> > is "care" and care translates into love in most cultures."
> >
> > That's it. The only hope. Love. All the other interesting things about
> > "Permaculture" must emanate from that center. A lot of people haven't
> found
> > their center, which is why I've never been able to identify with a
> > "movement" in permaculture. People are too busy chasing what we were all
> > programmed to chase (money, fame, senses). Too busy with dogma (servants
> of
> > ideas). Too busy building new boxes to contain and constrain (mental
> > enslavement). "The goal is not to build a new box, it's to break down the
> > walls of the box in the first place" (first heard from Joel Glanzberg,
> > attributed to Malcolm X).
> >
> > At any rate, "Permaculture" as it is increasingly known, has increasingly
> > little to do with permanence in culture. Time to look outside the box.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 3:52 AM, Lee Flier <lflier@mindspring.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Well said, Scott. I’ve been put off by the Silicon Valley-ish
> > capitalistic
> > > fervor of a lot of folks calling themselves Permaculturists these days.
> > > Love and care do indeed seem to be absent from the equation. I feel a
> > > strong pull to practice in a much quieter way, and that’s mostly what
> > I’ve
> > > been doing. It’s not likely to make me rich, but that isn’t the goal.
> > >
> > > > On Apr 21, 2018, at 11:38 AM, Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think this can be "a" step, "the next big step" not hardly.  I
> don't
> > > have much faith in "Transition Town" they don't seem to have much
> > traction
> > > in the U.S.A.  Too much focus on process and too little on action seems
> > the
> > > most common complaint.
> > > >
> > > > I also have given up on the IPC; I have flogged "invisible
> structures"
> > > through four IPC's with my Elephant in the Room sessions and have been
> > met
> > > with scorn, approbation, and lack of interest.  The genome seems to be
> > > configured to capitalism in most humans and I see that greed trumps
> (that
> > > word again) "care". Without a major focus on ethics permaculture is
> mired
> > > in the swamp of "herbal spirals" and "swales" and I, frankly, am bored
> to
> > > tears with both subjects.
> > > >
> > > > What brought me to permaculture was the ethics, principals and
> > invisible
> > > structures; all the rest was "technique".  Seems we have lost our focus
> > and
> > > are slipping back into the same old paradigm we were fighting to
> > overcome.
> > > The core of permaculture  is "care" and care translates into love in
> most
> > > cultures.  Love has been at the core of virtually every spiritual
> > tradition
> > > since the maternalistic societies of the middle east and as such have
> > > endured the ravages of time, though much diminished by religiosity
> > > > a "carrot/stick" pedagogy.
> > > >
> > > > Where that leaves me is to continue thinking my way through how to
> > > escape the mire of the current paradigm ( and certainly Trump is a huge
> > > harbinger of this paradigm) without violence, and lies.  I am still
> > > puzzling my way through my book "Dharma of Permaculture", but it is not
> > an
> > > easy task.  I am also trying to maintain so faith in the divine nature
> of
> > > man, though I often want to sink into the nihilistic "fuck it".
> > > >
> > > > Scott Pittman
> > > > Permaculture Institute
> > > >
> > > >> On 4/20/2018 10:50 AM, Steve Hart wrote:
> > > >> This event could be the next big step ?
> > > >>
> > > >> https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/transition-together-an-
> > > international-symposium-on-the-need-for-societal-
> > > transitions-and-systems-level-change/2018/02/19
> > > >>
> > > >> ​I assume there will be many UK Permies in attendance and also sure
> we
> > > all
> > > >> look fwd to the summaries and ongoing steps. Finally it seems many
> of
> > > our
> > > >> "Invisible Structures" are coming out of the closet. Perhaps the
> > reality
> > > >> and truth behind all the ghosts and smoking mirrors will be exposed
> to
> > > to
> > > >> allow us to better interpret where we have come from and how our
> > > societies
> > > >> have been conditioned, to then move forward.  Hopefully we can
> evolve
> > > this
> > > >> thread through IPCs​
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> *Steve Hart*
> > > >> *Ecology Architect​. *
> > > >> Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> > > >> Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape
> > Architecture
> > > >> and Systems Ecology.​
> > > >> Skype: tipenemanawa
> > > >> Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> The Permaculture International College
> > > >> www.permaculture <http://www.permaculturecollege.eu>education.com
> > > >> https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
> > > >> permaculture mailing list
> > > >> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > > >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Best regards, Scott Pittman Director Permaculture Institute
> > > > permaculture mailing list
> > > > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > >
> > > permaculture mailing list
> > > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Jason Gerhardt - Ecological Designer - Saint Louis, MO
> >
> > realearthdesign.com <http://www.realearthdesign.com>
> >
> > 720-496-9744
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>



-- 


Jason Gerhardt - Ecological Designer - Saint Louis, MO

realearthdesign.com <http://www.realearthdesign.com>

720-496-9744