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  • From: Michael Elvin <marimike6@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Cancel subscription
  • Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 12:51:47 +0000 (UTC)

Lindsay, you have to unsubscribe yourself. Click on this link:
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On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 4:52 PM, "lindsaycafiero@gmail.com"
<lindsaycafiero@gmail.com> wrote:



Please remove me from list service

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Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 13:12:51 +0000 (UTC)
From: Michael Elvin <marimike6@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future (now!)
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I don't like to put a kink in the consensus, but this seems to be a common =
view: ""Figure out a better solution," says the mind, forgetting=C2=A0that =
there are no problems in the natural world and thereby making=C2=A0conflict=
."
That's only true if you posit that the natural world has no morality. Becau=
se in reality, everyone eats everybody else. The big ones eat the little on=
es, always have. The thing that's different about people, they have ideas a=
bout things like justice & injustice... and these ideas upset the natural a=
morality.
Hope I'm not being too out of line.

On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 12:56 AM, Vaidila Satvika <vaidila@gmail.com=
> wrote:
=20

Well said, Scott! I'm happy for you and the direction you are guiding.

There is no such thing as "understanding" consciousness because that's all
beyond the little mind's capacity. Conceptualization and thinking on this
level are part of the chatter that miss the deeper understanding of love
that you're pointing to. On the level of thought we can seek and we will
never find. The mind's reaction to this email is to judge these statements
as pointless: "Figure out a better solution," says the mind, forgetting
that there are no problems in the natural world and thereby making
conflict. Our culture--Me and You--are too materialistic because we give
too much of ourselves to thought--the most prevalent form dominating every
human being. The natural world doesn't think--it's in harmony with itself.
In this sense the natural world operates as a perfect invisible structure.
(Title for your upcoming book?)

And this all points to the direction that you seem to imply: inward focus
for a more harmonious external reality. (But on a deeper level it's all
internal to and not separate from you/me because there is only one
connected life in constant play.)

Thank you!

P.S. The only sane vision of the future is now. Future only exists as a
thought, based on the premise that tomorrow is better than today, leading
to a perpetual craving that has led to the dysfunctional human state. And
the mind cannot exit that problem, which is the most essential problem,
because it itself is the barrier. And that realization is healing.



On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 1:42 PM, <scott@permaculture.org> wrote:

>=C2=A0 I personally think that a separate group for this would attract lit=
tle
> attention and soon die. To this mix is a good solution, in spite of some
> pleople signing off ever now and then. -- Georg Parlow
>
> Therein lies the problem, Georg.=C2=A0 I have been teaching permaculture =
for
> the past 30+ years and for half of that time I have been insisting on the
> importance of invisible structures.=C2=A0 Mollison taught that visible
> structures were those that showed us "what" to do and invisible structure=
s
> taught us "how" to do it.=C2=A0 Without the how too we are just an encycl=
opedia
> of techniques and methods of dealing with the material world.=C2=A0 Once =
we dig
> deep into the invisible structures we find we are able to dance around th=
e
> legal, financial, and social structures that are the primary impediments =
to
> realizing our dreams.
>
> I also include permaculture ethics in the invisible structures though the=
y
> are mostly poorly taught in the Permaculture Design Course by many teache=
rs
> who are not engaged in the ethics themselves.=C2=A0 Care of the Earth, Ca=
re of
> People and Return all excess yield to the Care of the Earth and People
> sounds simple enough but if one truly applies ones thoughts to deeply
> understanding these three ethics it leads us deeper into the realm of the
> unknown.=C2=A0 I, personally, think that "Care" should be replaced with t=
he word
> "Love" to get the deeper significance of these ethics.
>
> I have been living on a yoga ashram for the past year seeking a deeper
> understanding of the invisible and have been humbled by my ignorance of t=
he
> necessity to understand consciousness.=C2=A0 Physicists, philosophers,
> theologians, and gurus of all stripes have sought to understand
> consciousness and the deep appeal of materialism for hundreds of years bu=
t
> few have actually reached that pinnacle of understanding.=C2=A0 After a y=
ear of
> sitting on a zafu in meditation twice a day, 7 days a week find myself no
> closer to understanding anything except that I know that there is an answ=
er
> and that meditation, prayer, contemplation, and altered states are all
> methods that are directed at self realization.=C2=A0 It is a difficult pr=
ocess
> to overcome the incessant chatter of the mind whose primary purpose in li=
fe
> is to keep us tethered to the material plane.
>
> We no longer have the Wisdom Schools of the past to provide us with direc=
t
> knowledge of this process.=C2=A0 We have become so embedded in the materi=
alistic
> plane that we all are narcissists to a greater or lesser degree.=C2=A0 We
> currently have a candidate for president of the USA who is the ultimate
> narcissist, while the other candidate is a narcissist in denial.=C2=A0 Ou=
r
> hunger for stuff/things has led to the destruction of our biosphere and t=
o
> wars to steal the stuff from other cultures and places.=C2=A0 We are enga=
ged in
> the final spasms of destroying ourselves and the planet to feed an
> insatiable appetite for something to fill the void in our existence.=C2=
=A0 As
> permaculture designers it is incumbent upon us to find our way back to th=
e
> garden.
>
> When I haven't been meditating I have been trying to write a book titled
> "Dharma of Permaculture".=C2=A0 Dharma being the law of the cosmos as it =
is
> reflected in us.=C2=A0 This was what the ten commandments were attempting=
, and
> the beatitudes of Jesus Christ was trying to articulate.=C2=A0 Buddha, La=
o Tsu,
> Mohammed, Yogis, and other avatars throughout the ages have sought to
> articulate humans role in creation and have offered rules of behavior to
> guide us to that understanding.
>
> I believe that permaculture ethics are an outline of how humans should
> survive and that the "natural principals" show us the dharma of the natur=
al
> world around us.=C2=A0 It has been through permaculture that I have slowl=
y come
> to realize that I am here to caretake or husband this incredible creation
> that we no longer recognize the beauty and stunning intelligence of.
>
> I would love for other to join me in seeking better solutions to life tha=
n
> the ones we currently worship.
> >
>
> >=C2=A0 -------Original Message-------
> >=C2=A0 From: Linda Ray <lindaray@att.net>
> >=C2=A0 To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> >=C2=A0 Subject: Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future
> >=C2=A0 Sent: Jul 31 '16 18:21
> >
> >=C2=A0 I'm with Georg on this.JMHO.
> >
> >=C2=A0 Namaste,
> >=C2=A0 Linda :-)
> >
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Georg Parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at>
> >=C2=A0 To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> >=C2=A0 Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 11:49 AM
> >=C2=A0 Subject: Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future
> >
> >=C2=A0 Lawrence,
> >
> >=C2=A0 >>> someone can create a Google Group PISS (permaculture invisibl=
e
> systems
> >=C2=A0 >> and
> >=C2=A0 >>> structures)
> >=C2=A0 >>
> >=C2=A0 >> ROTFLOL
> >=C2=A0 >>
> >=C2=A0 > ...
> >=C2=A0 > =E2=80=A6
> >=C2=A0 > You might disagree with me Georg.
> >
> >=C2=A0 please do not get me wrong - sorry when I was unclear here. I
> personally feel that a discussion of invisible structures is a highly
> impoertant part of why I am on this international list. Nut=E2=80=99n=E2=
=80=99bolts info is
> valuable, and I think none of us can ever have too much of that, but I fe=
el
> that for the visible structures there are plenty of good solutions around=
,
> locally and beyond. Even 50% of what I know about them right now and my
> design training and experience would be ample enough IF I could and would
> apply them unhindered by the current invisible structures in place. So
> discussion on HOW we can design and implement WHICH invisible structures =
is
> highly needed.
> >
> >=C2=A0 I think we can also all agree on the notion, that interlocking ou=
r
> horns on our favoured propaganda-fed belief systems is something we could
> do without - BUT in order to grow in our inner freedom from those
> influences it might need some of that. It might be helpful in realizing o=
r
> discriminating between, what are original thougths and what are
> propaganda-driven emotional reactions to distorted perception of reality.
> This is tricky business, and I appreciate these discussions.
> >
> >=C2=A0 I interpreted that naming the invisible structures group PISS as =
a
> Freudian sign of you being pissed about said confrontations.
> >
> >=C2=A0 I personally think that a separate group for this would attract l=
ittle
> attention and soon die. To this mix is a good solution, in spite of some
> pleople signing off ever now and then.
> >
> >=C2=A0 Georg
> >=C2=A0 (Vienna, Austria, EU)
> >=C2=A0 permaculture mailing list
> >=C2=A0 permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >=C2=A0 subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> >=C2=A0 http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
> >
> >
> >=C2=A0 permaculture mailing list
> >=C2=A0 permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >=C2=A0 subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> >=C2=A0 http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
> permaculture mailing list
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Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 13:48:42 +0000 (UTC)
From: Michael Elvin <marimike6@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] CO2 + sunlight = FUEL
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"Seems that some sensible researchers are making significant progress - a
solar panel that absorbs CO2 and outputs a fuel gas. Sounds like a solution
to me..."

Hey, problem solved. At least, as long as the tungsten diselenide holds out.
We have abundant selenium, but tungsten may end up being in short supply.
Still, other catalysts may well be developed now that the door has been
opened to this line of inquiry.

One secondary benefit may be (I've just given the actual research only a
cursory glance) that the process appears to shed an oxygen molecule. And
while there's been quite a lot of furor over the increase in atmospheric CO2
in recent decades, hardly a word has been uttered about the apparent decrease
in our atmospheric oxygen. Which is odd, considering how essential it is to
our lives and those of the rest of the animal kingdom. A little more O2 might
be just the thing we need, to alleviate our increased asthma rate.

On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 4:13 AM, Georg Parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at>
wrote:


Seems that some sensible researchers are making significant progress - a
solar panel that absorbs CO2 and outputs a fuel gas. Sounds like a solution
to me...
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160730154602.htm

Georg
(Vienna, Austria, EU)
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>From durtysouthdrewsos@yahoo.com Wed Aug 3 10:50:42 2016
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Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 14:47:46 +0000 (UTC)
From: Andrew <durtysouthdrewsos@yahoo.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] Scholarship funding for North American
Permaculture Convergence (NAPC) - please share!
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blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px =
#715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:whi=
te !important; } I've tried numerous times throughout the year to contact =
organizers of the NAPC to no avail. It would of been nice to attend this ye=
ar, I hope others will be able to go. Aloha!
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, July 29, 2016, 5:02 AM, Wesley Roe and Santa Barbara Permacultur=
e Network <lakinroe@silcom.com> wrote:

We are engaged in a campaign to ensure diverse representation at the upcomi=
ng North American Permaculture Convergence in N Calif Sept 14-18, this fall=
. Please consider forwarding the below link to your email lists and/or soci=
al media!=20

We plan to bring people of all ages from urban areas, Mexico, Central Ameri=
ca, Haiti, Native American reservations and more who otherwise might not be=
able to attend. We know there are many out there doing deep work in their =
communities that could use more resources, support, inspiration and knowled=
ge.=20
The upcoming N American Permaculture Convergence is a place where they can =
interact with a larger community to learn and teach, and pursue beneficial =
connections. If you know of someone who should be at this event but may not=
be able to afford it, please let them know about our scholarship applicati=
ons at northamericanpermaculture.org <http://northamericanpermaculture.org/=
>.=20

Scholarship crowdfunding is here!=C2=A0 https://www.generosity.com/communit=
y-fundraising/permaculture-convergence-support <https://www.generosity.com/=
community-fundraising/permaculture-convergence-support>

Thank you so much for your support!=C2=A0 There are many worthy individuals=
whose work will be enhanced by attendance at this convergence. We ask for =
your help to get them there! There are many fun rewards on this campaign, a=
nd any amount you can donate will make a difference!=20

This campaign will help cover airfare for participants from diverse locatio=
ns and hard event costs and spending will be transparent.=20

Scholarship funding for North American Permaculture Convergence=C2=A0 - pl=
ease share!

We are engaged in a campaign to ensure diverse representation at the upcomi=
ng North American Permaculture Convergence in N Calif Sept 14-18, this fall=
.=20

Please consider forwarding the below link to your email lists and/or social=
media! We plan to bring people of all ages from urban areas, Mexico, Centr=
al America, Haiti, Native American reservations and more who otherwise migh=
t not be able to attend. We know there are many out there doing deep work i=
n their communities that could use more resources, support, inspiration and=
knowledge.

The upcoming N American Permaculture Convergence is a place where they can=
interact with a larger community to learn and teach, and pursue beneficial=
connections. If you know of someone who should be at this event but may no=
t be able to afford it, please let them know about our scholarship applicat=
ions at www.northamericanpermaculture.org.=20

Thank you so much for your support!=C2=A0 There are many worthy individuals=
whose work will be enhanced by attendance at this convergence. We ask for =
your help to get them there! There are many fun rewards on this campaign, a=
nd any amount you can donate will make a difference!=20

This campaign will help cover airfare for participants from diverse locatio=
ns and hard event costs and spending will be transparent.=20
=E2=80=8B <http://northamericanpermaculture.org/>

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=20





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