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Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future

From: Michael Elvin <marimike6@yahoo.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 18:07:25 +0000 (UTC)

Scott-- this is an excellent description of the Task. A guideline I like to
follow is, feed the world that which nourishes it and the world will become
bountiful-- and feed you back. This seems to hold true whether we're
speaking of the material world, of dirt and stone and living systems, or the
ordinary interpersonal world of daily commerce.
I wish I could say the same for what people here are calling the "invisible"
world, of laws and entanglements (I'm new to the list, and hope I have this
right). With neurotic structures of the sort being imposed on us, we all just
have to learn how to play the game. And hope we don't get bitten in the
process, by those who take it really seriously.

On Monday, August 1, 2016 1:43 PM, "scott@permaculture.org"
<scott@permaculture.org> wrote:

I personally think that a separate group for this would attract little
attention and soon die. To this mix is a good solution, in spite of some
pleople signing off ever now and then. -- Georg Parlow

Therein lies the problem, Georg.  I have been teaching permaculture for the
past 30+ years and for half of that time I have been insisting on the
importance of invisible structures.  Mollison taught that visible structures
were those that showed us "what" to do and invisible structures taught us
"how" to do it.  Without the how too we are just an encyclopedia of
techniques and methods of dealing with the material world.  Once we dig deep
into the invisible structures we find we are able to dance around the legal,
financial, and social structures that are the primary impediments to
realizing our dreams.

I also include permaculture ethics in the invisible structures though they
are mostly poorly taught in the Permaculture Design Course by many teachers
who are not engaged in the ethics themselves.  Care of the Earth, Care of
People and Return all excess yield to the Care of the Earth and People sounds
simple enough but if one truly applies ones thoughts to deeply understanding
these three ethics it leads us deeper into the realm of the unknown.  I,
personally, think that "Care" should be replaced with the word "Love" to get
the deeper significance of these ethics.

I have been living on a yoga ashram for the past year seeking a deeper
understanding of the invisible and have been humbled by my ignorance of the
necessity to understand consciousness.  Physicists, philosophers,
theologians, and gurus of all stripes have sought to understand consciousness
and the deep appeal of materialism for hundreds of years but few have
actually reached that pinnacle of understanding.  After a year of sitting on
a zafu in meditation twice a day, 7 days a week find myself no closer to
understanding anything except that I know that there is an answer and that
meditation, prayer, contemplation, and altered states are all methods that
are directed at self realization. It is a difficult process to overcome the
incessant chatter of the mind whose primary purpose in life is to keep us
tethered to the material plane.

We no longer have the Wisdom Schools of the past to provide us with direct
knowledge of this process. We have become so embedded in the materialistic
plane that we all are narcissists to a greater or lesser degree. We
currently have a candidate for president of the USA who is the ultimate
narcissist, while the other candidate is a narcissist in denial. Our hunger
for stuff/things has led to the destruction of our biosphere and to wars to
steal the stuff from other cultures and places. We are engaged in the final
spasms of destroying ourselves and the planet to feed an insatiable appetite
for something to fill the void in our existence. As permaculture designers
it is incumbent upon us to find our way back to the garden.

When I haven't been meditating I have been trying to write a book titled
"Dharma of Permaculture". Dharma being the law of the cosmos as it is
reflected in us. This was what the ten commandments were attempting, and the
beatitudes of Jesus Christ was trying to articulate. Buddha, Lao Tsu,
Mohammed, Yogis, and other avatars throughout the ages have sought to
articulate humans role in creation and have offered rules of behavior to
guide us to that understanding.

I believe that permaculture ethics are an outline of how humans should
survive and that the "natural principals" show us the dharma of the natural
world around us. It has been through permaculture that I have slowly come to
realize that I am here to caretake or husband this incredible creation that
we no longer recognize the beauty and stunning intelligence of.

I would love for other to join me in seeking better solutions to life than
the ones we currently worship.
>

>  -------Original Message-------
>  From: Linda Ray <lindaray@att.net>
>  To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>  Subject: Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future
>  Sent: Jul 31 '16 18:21
>
>  I'm with Georg on this.JMHO.
>
>  Namaste,
>  Linda :-)
>
>
>        From: Georg Parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at>
>  To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>  Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 11:49 AM
>  Subject: Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future
>
>  Lawrence,
>
>  >>> someone can create a Google Group PISS (permaculture invisible systems
>  >> and
>  >>> structures)
>  >>
>  >> ROTFLOL
>  >>
>  > ...
>  > …
>  > You might disagree with me Georg.
>
>  please do not get me wrong - sorry when I was unclear here. I personally
>feel that a discussion of invisible structures is a highly impoertant part
>of why I am on this international list. Nut’n’bolts info is valuable, and I
>think none of us can ever have too much of that, but I feel that for the
>visible structures there are plenty of good solutions around, locally and
>beyond. Even 50% of what I know about them right now and my design training
>and experience would be ample enough IF I could and would apply them
>unhindered by the current invisible structures in place. So discussion on
>HOW we can design and implement WHICH invisible structures is highly needed.
>
>  I think we can also all agree on the notion, that interlocking our horns
>on our favoured propaganda-fed belief systems is something we could do
>without - BUT in order to grow in our inner freedom from those influences it
>might need some of that. It might be helpful in realizing or discriminating
>between, what are original thougths and what are propaganda-driven emotional
>reactions to distorted perception of reality. This is tricky business, and I
>appreciate these discussions.
>
>  I interpreted that naming the invisible structures group PISS as a
>Freudian sign of you being pissed about said confrontations.
>
>  I personally think that a separate group for this would attract little
>attention and soon die. To this mix is a good solution, in spite of some
>pleople signing off ever now and then.
>
>  Georg
>  (Vienna, Austria, EU)
>  permaculture mailing list
>  permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>  subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>  http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
>
>
>  permaculture mailing list
>  permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>  subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>  http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
permaculture mailing list
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Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 19:37:17 +0000 (UTC)
From: DONKA RADEVA <donnybg@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future
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"Mollison taught that visible structures were those that showed us "what" to
do and invisible structures taught us "how" to do it.  Without the how too we
are just an encyclopedia of techniques and methods of dealing with the
material world.  Once we dig deep into the invisible structures we find we
are able to dance around the legal, financial, and social structures that are
the primary impediments to realizing our dreams."
Thank you, Scott, for these so clear and nice described definitions of the
structures from permaculture. Shall I cite you perhaps in my work, which is
about the economy issues in permaculture farms in Bulgaria? We have an
important issue now about non-regulated things in our law for food and just
have realized together with the farmers that in that case we need to dance ...

Best,
Donka Radeva
Bulgaria

On Monday, August 1, 2016 8:43 PM, "scott@permaculture.org"
<scott@permaculture.org> wrote:

I personally think that a separate group for this would attract little
attention and soon die. To this mix is a good solution, in spite of some
pleople signing off ever now and then. -- Georg Parlow

Therein lies the problem, Georg.  I have been teaching permaculture for the
past 30+ years and for half of that time I have been insisting on the
importance of invisible structures.  Mollison taught that visible structures
were those that showed us "what" to do and invisible structures taught us
"how" to do it.  Without the how too we are just an encyclopedia of
techniques and methods of dealing with the material world.  Once we dig deep
into the invisible structures we find we are able to dance around the legal,
financial, and social structures that are the primary impediments to
realizing our dreams.

I also include permaculture ethics in the invisible structures though they
are mostly poorly taught in the Permaculture Design Course by many teachers
who are not engaged in the ethics themselves.  Care of the Earth, Care of
People and Return all excess yield to the Care of the Earth and People sounds
simple enough but if one truly applies ones thoughts to deeply understanding
these three ethics it leads us deeper into the realm of the unknown.  I,
personally, think that "Care" should be replaced with the word "Love" to get
the deeper significance of these ethics.

I have been living on a yoga ashram for the past year seeking a deeper
understanding of the invisible and have been humbled by my ignorance of the
necessity to understand consciousness.  Physicists, philosophers,
theologians, and gurus of all stripes have sought to understand consciousness
and the deep appeal of materialism for hundreds of years but few have
actually reached that pinnacle of understanding.  After a year of sitting on
a zafu in meditation twice a day, 7 days a week find myself no closer to
understanding anything except that I know that there is an answer and that
meditation, prayer, contemplation, and altered states are all methods that
are directed at self realization. It is a difficult process to overcome the
incessant chatter of the mind whose primary purpose in life is to keep us
tethered to the material plane.

We no longer have the Wisdom Schools of the past to provide us with direct
knowledge of this process. We have become so embedded in the materialistic
plane that we all are narcissists to a greater or lesser degree. We
currently have a candidate for president of the USA who is the ultimate
narcissist, while the other candidate is a narcissist in denial. Our hunger
for stuff/things has led to the destruction of our biosphere and to wars to
steal the stuff from other cultures and places. We are engaged in the final
spasms of destroying ourselves and the planet to feed an insatiable appetite
for something to fill the void in our existence. As permaculture designers
it is incumbent upon us to find our way back to the garden.

When I haven't been meditating I have been trying to write a book titled
"Dharma of Permaculture". Dharma being the law of the cosmos as it is
reflected in us. This was what the ten commandments were attempting, and the
beatitudes of Jesus Christ was trying to articulate. Buddha, Lao Tsu,
Mohammed, Yogis, and other avatars throughout the ages have sought to
articulate humans role in creation and have offered rules of behavior to
guide us to that understanding.

I believe that permaculture ethics are an outline of how humans should
survive and that the "natural principals" show us the dharma of the natural
world around us. It has been through permaculture that I have slowly come to
realize that I am here to caretake or husband this incredible creation that
we no longer recognize the beauty and stunning intelligence of.

I would love for other to join me in seeking better solutions to life than
the ones we currently worship.
>

>  -------Original Message-------
>  From: Linda Ray <lindaray@att.net>
>  To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>  Subject: Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future
>  Sent: Jul 31 '16 18:21
>
>  I'm with Georg on this.JMHO.
>
>  Namaste,
>  Linda :-)
>
>
>        From: Georg Parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at>
>  To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>  Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 11:49 AM
>  Subject: Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future
>
>  Lawrence,
>
>  >>> someone can create a Google Group PISS (permaculture invisible systems
>  >> and
>  >>> structures)
>  >>
>  >> ROTFLOL
>  >>
>  > ...
>  > …
>  > You might disagree with me Georg.
>
>  please do not get me wrong - sorry when I was unclear here. I personally
>feel that a discussion of invisible structures is a highly impoertant part
>of why I am on this international list. Nut’n’bolts info is valuable, and I
>think none of us can ever have too much of that, but I feel that for the
>visible structures there are plenty of good solutions around, locally and
>beyond. Even 50% of what I know about them right now and my design training
>and experience would be ample enough IF I could and would apply them
>unhindered by the current invisible structures in place. So discussion on
>HOW we can design and implement WHICH invisible structures is highly needed.
>
>  I think we can also all agree on the notion, that interlocking our horns
>on our favoured propaganda-fed belief systems is something we could do
>without - BUT in order to grow in our inner freedom from those influences it
>might need some of that. It might be helpful in realizing or discriminating
>between, what are original thougths and what are propaganda-driven emotional
>reactions to distorted perception of reality. This is tricky business, and I
>appreciate these discussions.
>
>  I interpreted that naming the invisible structures group PISS as a
>Freudian sign of you being pissed about said confrontations.
>
>  I personally think that a separate group for this would attract little
>attention and soon die. To this mix is a good solution, in spite of some
>pleople signing off ever now and then.
>
>  Georg
>  (Vienna, Austria, EU)
>  permaculture mailing list
>  permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>  subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>  http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
>
>
>  permaculture mailing list
>  permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>  subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>  http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
permaculture mailing list
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>From koreenbrennan@gmail.com Mon Aug 1 21:08:07 2016
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] Scholarship funding for North American
Permaculture Convergence (NAPC) - please share!
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I'm going to put in a plea to please consider donating to this campaign.
I've donated a scholarship to a PDC I teach and we would love to have
others donate services or goods as perks, as well. We are still adding
perks!

Please, if you can afford it, consider giving for those who can't and who
will benefit from attending this event.

This convergence will have a lot of emphasis on diversity and decolonizing
permaculture and we want to ensure that anybody that can benefit from this
work and wants to attend, is able to do so.

There are many good things lining up regarding this convergence. A lot of
focus, energy, great people, great stories, and great collaborations. It is
something people in pioneer areas should see. So please, if you are able,
consider donating! We do have some nice perks too. :-) And please keep in
mind, if you donate early in the campaign, we may get broader promotion
within our crowdfunding network.

Plane tickets are expensive from some areas and is a major barrier for some
people, especially from other countries. So that is one place where much of
the funding will go. It is a hard cost that we will not be able to cover
without the crowdfunding.

Please don't hesitate to ask any questions or give feedback, or suggestions
on who might benefit from this!

K

On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Wesley Roe and Santa Barbara Permaculture
Network <lakinroe@silcom.com> wrote:

> We are engaged in a campaign to ensure diverse representation at the
> upcoming North American Permaculture Convergence in N Calif Sept 14-18,
> this fall. Please consider forwarding the below link to your email lists
> and/or social media!
>
> We plan to bring people of all ages from urban areas, Mexico, Central
> America, Haiti, Native American reservations and more who otherwise might
> not be able to attend. We know there are many out there doing deep work in
> their communities that could use more resources, support, inspiration and
> knowledge.
> The upcoming N American Permaculture Convergence is a place where they can
> interact with a larger community to learn and teach, and pursue beneficial
> connections. If you know of someone who should be at this event but may not
> be able to afford it, please let them know about our scholarship
> applications at northamericanpermaculture.org <
> http://northamericanpermaculture.org/>.
>
> Scholarship crowdfunding is here!
> https://www.generosity.com/community-fundraising/permaculture-convergence-support
> <
> https://www.generosity.com/community-fundraising/permaculture-convergence-support
> >
>
> Thank you so much for your support! There are many worthy individuals
> whose work will be enhanced by attendance at this convergence. We ask for
> your help to get them there! There are many fun rewards on this campaign,
> and any amount you can donate will make a difference!
>
> This campaign will help cover airfare for participants from diverse
> locations and hard event costs and spending will be transparent.
>
> Scholarship funding for North American Permaculture Convergence - please
> share!
>
> We are engaged in a campaign to ensure diverse representation at the
> upcoming North American Permaculture Convergence in N Calif Sept 14-18,
> this fall.
>
> Please consider forwarding the below link to your email lists and/or
> social media! We plan to bring people of all ages from urban areas, Mexico,
> Central America, Haiti, Native American reservations and more who otherwise
> might not be able to attend. We know there are many out there doing deep
> work in their communities that could use more resources, support,
> inspiration and knowledge.
>
> The upcoming N American Permaculture Convergence is a place where they
> can interact with a larger community to learn and teach, and pursue
> beneficial connections. If you know of someone who should be at this event
> but may not be able to afford it, please let them know about our
> scholarship applications at www.northamericanpermaculture.org.
>
> Thank you so much for your support! There are many worthy individuals
> whose work will be enhanced by attendance at this convergence. We ask for
> your help to get them there! There are many fun rewards on this campaign,
> and any amount you can donate will make a difference!
>
> This campaign will help cover airfare for participants from diverse
> locations and hard event costs and spending will be transparent.
>  <http://northamericanpermaculture.org/>
>
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>

--
Koreen Brennan
http://www.growpermaculture.com
http://www.permacultureintl.com
http://northamericanpermaculture.org

Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future, scrooge McDuck, 08/01/2016
- Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future, Michael Elvin, 08/01/2016
- Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future, Steve Hart, 08/01/2016
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
- Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future, Michael Elvin, 08/01/2016
- Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future, Lawrence London, 08/01/2016
- Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future, Jason Gerhardt, 08/01/2016
  - Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future, Lawrence London, 08/02/2016
    - Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future, Lawrence London, 08/02/2016