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  • From: Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: [compost_tea]
  • Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 05:07:55 +1200

LL...what exactly are you inviting my attention to ? Farcebook Yahoo or
Adam's anal science of Inghams oxygen ?

If its Farcebook and Yahoo I agree with your arguments. If so what is your
arguments with Google...every system has its flaws and manipulations abuse
deceit and gangsters. They all irritate me equally. My personal view is, it
doesn't matter what vehicle one uses they are all faulty. But the vehicle I
don't care about or bother about and don't waste my time on even concerning
myself with. I look more at the content and context and meaning then value
of the message or the need to connect. So I use whatever vehicle is out
there. If we did a survey of all university students over the world what
vehicles they use then me fore one would jump on that bus and use that for
its communication that is needed. If we are not communicating why F...
bother.

But if your call for my attention is with Adam's anal fascination with
Ingham science....my argument is similar. Permaculture in my view is about
learning from nature..when we focus on reductionism as Adam seems to be
doing we move quickly into sick systems. The world has proven that to us
for centuries. When it comes to soil science lets just simply consider what
the entire dynamic biology, chemistry, physics, astral, etheric, cosmic,
spiritual, and physical, plus more sciences and more realms exist that are
there for us to stimulate. In Permaculture we create the challenge to
imitate nature. The reality is that can never be done for it is far to
complex for us to do that.

So Adam's problems it seems having not talked withy him directly or even
knowing any depth of the man maybe more about trying to find answers to
complex characteristics of mature through scientific redunctionism
methodologies and recipes. That is not what Permaculture is about. It is
about principles, observing and reading the context.

I am involved in the stimulation of soil tilth and use a combination of
experiences Ingham is but one Arden Andersen is another as is Glen
Atkinson, Graeme Sait the list goes on. There is not one brew that suits
every situation. The is not one golden recipe. The key is in observation
and principles then experimenting with application to find what does work
and what does not. In saying that there is some very simple and easy
applications. For there are a lot of simple and lazy clients out there. So
keep it simple and easy and ...lazy. I call it M cubed..More Mulch and
Manure.

I look fwd to your clarification LL

Steve Hart

Steve Hart

On 18 May 2015 at 02:44, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com> wrote:

> [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
> Apologies for the miserable P.O.S. Yahoo groups footers; if you try to
> delete them it deletes the whole message. Why anyone would use yahoo groups
> or farcebook is completely beyond me.
> Rumor is that Google may remove Google+ and Google Blogger from the free
> services they offer.
> This will obviously drive more people to the aforementioned nonentities but
> hopefully not. It could also cause new and increased interest in the
> ibiblio Mailman lists and Mailman email lists elsewhere. I hope that will
> be the case here.
> [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
> Attention, Steve Hart:
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Adam Ormes Court ormus23@gmail.com [compost_tea] <
> compost_tea@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sun, May 17, 2015 at 7:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [compost_tea]
> To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com
>
> I posted a question about compost teas a month ago, however nobody answered
> it...
>
> Here it is again:
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Greetings,
>
> My first post here.
>
> Have become interested in this subject through Elaine Ingham's work; for me
> it casts a very interesting light on the biodynamic horn manure
> preparation, especially given that Steiner was talking about
> vortex-stirring it in a barrel, ie oxygenating. (Biodynamicists please take
> note, I'm not being reductionistic here - I feel that there is more going
> on with the preps - but that fact in itself is very interesting.) A friend
> and I interviewed her recently and asked about biodynamics among other
> things, so if you're interested in that you can listen to the interview
> here: http://www.needfire.info/home/interview-with-dr-elaine-ingham
> Anyway, moving swiftly on, this leads me to my question...
>
> I've been looking at the literature on the oxygen content of compost teas.
> In Elaine's compost tea manual, I see that the advice is not to allow
> oxygen levels to drop below 6ppm in order to prevent the development of
> anaerobic organisms. The relevant chapter features a chart showing oxygen
> levels over time as the tea brews, starting at 8ppm, and starting to dip
> after 8, to a low of about 5ppm after 19 hours and starting to recover
> thereafter. It is also stated that the tea brew used molasses and kelp -
> which in itself is a little confusing as I thought that adding molasses was
> generally not a good idea? But regardless of that, the point here is that
> the oxygen dropped below 5ppm and therefore the quality of the tea is
> likely not great as anaerobes will have had a chance to multiply.
>
> Therefore... I would like to know what the D.O. content of the brew ought
> to be at before the organisms start to affect it. Or is this not a simple
> equation?
>
> The second part of my question is regarding what happens after the brewing
> stops.
>
> I've yet to get a good picture of what happens once a bubbler is turned
> off. Do the organisms start to die off for lack of oxygen, or do they
> become dormant? How quickly does the quality deteriorate?
>
> In this context the research done into making compost teas with flowforms
> is particularly of interest to me. There is a document here
> <http://flowform.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Oxygenation-Report.pdf>
> which in its final heading documents some research done by Joel Williams at
> Laverstoke Park into the D.O. content of water put through a Flowform,
> which shows that it remained high for 8 days, which was not when it went
> down, but when he stopped taking readings. My understanding is that this is
> in stark contrast to brews made with bubblers.
>
> If this is true, then it would seem to me that this would be worthy of
> further investigation... have any here looked into this?
>
> Best,
>
> Adam
>
> --
> "The roots of knowledge are bitter, but its fruit are sweet."
> — Cicero, Roman Statesman (106-43BC)
>
> On 17 May 2015 at 06:34, Tyler Nofziger strider_gts@hotmail.com
> [compost_tea] <compost_tea@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I've already made and sprayed about 80,000 gallons of compost tea (give
> or
> > take 10k gallons) in the last couple months =)
> >
> > For context, I apply agricultural applications locally.
> >
> >
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> __,_._,___
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>
> --
> Lawrence F. London
> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> Ello: @ecoponderosa <https://ello.co/ecoponderosa>
> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> https://sites.google.com/site/venaurafarm/
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--
Kia ora

[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
*Ecology Architect*
*Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
and Systems Ecology.​*
Skype: tipenemanawa
Phone: +64 220 75 62 11

Permaculture Global Design:
www.permacultureglobaldesign.org

The Permaculture College of Europe.
www.permaculturecollege.eu
https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart

GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
www.permaculturepartnerships.com




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