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  • From: venaurafarm <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Brief comments on Natural Farming
  • Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 13:29:03 -0400


More interesting observations from Iyo:

[edited by me]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [fukuoka_farming]
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 15:48:46 -0000
From: iyo_farm <iyo.farm@ymail.com>

<...>

The concept and theory of Natural Farming has a far greater circle of
influence into one's own life and the world around us. At this moment,
accepted, it is very weak in the world but if practised on a personal
level requires and creates change in the person and has far reaching
ramifications.

<...>

Natural Farming also has a social aspect, the nature of the society of
Natural Farming, its relationship with its close neighbours such as the
Permiesculturists, and opposing cultures such as industrial agriculture.


If someone is to adopt "Natural Farming" as a purely marketing device, I would say it is no longer Natural Farming. If "Big Ag" were tomorrow run out of fossil fuels and steam wholesale into "Natural Farming" as they are currently in Organic Farming ... applying their same politics and exploitative mode of operation ... then I would say it is unnatural
farming again.

(Totalitarianism, exploitation of land rights and labor etc are not
Natural Farming)

I think Permaculture and Natural Farming are far too small and intricate
theories for big business to ever be interest but it will come and rob
whatever is of value that it can, and some people will sell out to it
for the money. Again, just as in the wholefoods world, organic farming
and environmental movements.

So the cultures and leaders of these movements are worth watching.

Some people will be unhappy with exacting discussion. They want FNF or
PC to be an escapist dream, a sounds good business device, a cult even.
They don't want to observe closely and question. Imagine if Fukuoka were observing this discussion and seeing it as one of his fields, how would he deal it?

On 10/2/2012 1:18 PM, venaurafarm wrote:

On 10/2/2012 11:05 AM, Dieter Brand wrote:
There is something about the idea of NF being elitist. NFers

The writer was not referring to NF as being elitist..see below.

certainly don't have the idea of feeding the people very close to
their heart. Anyways, calling it feudalistic is stretching things a

He was not referring to NF as feudal. He was addressing another issue,
within a flamewar, unfortunate circumstances. I extracted this snippet
because I liked it and thought it to be a gem of wisdom, showing the
potential of Iyo as a thinker and NF advocate.

Are you still subscribed to the fukuoka_farming list? It progresses slow
and steady with much good information, great writing and excellent
links. Linda Shewan submits useful and interesting posts..

Do you read the Fukuoka subforum at Permies? I recommend it. Read the
input from Larry Korn and watch his video. This will inspire you about
NF and Fukuoka in many good ways. Here's the link:
permies » forums » growies » fukuoka
http://www.permies.com/forums/f-104/fukuoka

And this forum started by Jamie Nichol. I see you are a subscriber.
Mediterranean Natural Farming
http://groups.google.com/group/mednf?pli=1

little. Most of all, NF is NOT a "concept". Thinking of it in terms
of a static concept will lead you into the wrong direction. It is in
its very essence dynamic, IF it does exist. And that is a big if.

It is certainly that. I must have been practising NF, natural gardening
and natural landscaping for most of my life. Many concepts, practices
and disciplines merge within NF.

Attaching Buddhist or other labels to it doesn't help either. Linda
was right about the idea of "design" distinguishing NF most clearly
from Permaculture.

They are part of one another, inextricably linked as I see it. NF could
be considered subjective while permaculture is objective. Permaculture
seeks to design and implement systems that emulate Nature and become
natural or NF in their most basic elements.
NF gives direction to those designs and installation of them.
Permaculture does not just "seek to emulate Nature" is seeks to be
nature, harmonious with on site and off site ecosystems, a dynamic
process, continually changing and self-stabilizing (sustainable,
regenerative). Permaculture leads to NF and NF provides timeless and
essential design criteria, not to mention inspiration.

I am going in a new direction with my farming and web development.
Whereas before I ignored NF, now I am seeking to convert most of my farm
to that state while using raised beds and employing minimum as well as
no till methods.

Here are my latest online resources. I am excited about developing these
along with my investigations of soil quality, nutrient balancing and
nutrient dense cropping and nutrition. Sounds like MF to me.
I will spend more time on the Google+ page and the Blogger Blog to begin
with. Maybe you would be interested in joining one or more of these.

Fukuoka Natural Farming

New Google resources on Masanobu Fukuoka Natural Farming

fukuokanaturalfarming site
fukuokanaturalfarming
http://sites.google.com/site/fukuokanaturalfarming

fukuokanaturalfarming group
fukuokanaturalfarming
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/fukuokanaturalfarming

fukuokanaturalfarming blog
fukuokanaturalfarming
http://fukuokanaturalfarming.blogspot.com/

Fukuoka Natural Farming Google+ page
https://plus.google.com/b/110283802853538126401/110283802853538126401

Aside from that, it could be pretty much
anything. It presupposes a "dialogue with nature" that will not be
confined into the straightjacket of any preconceived "design".
Nature is always different, in each place, at each time, for each of
us. There is no one-fit-all solution to it. That is uncomfortable.
That is the challenge.

That is classic, Dieter. Credit to you. May I use this in my various NF
webites/groups/blogs?

--- On Mon, 10/1/12, venaurafarm <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net> wrote:

This is the portion of his message that I thought was well written and
important, uniquely expressed.

Original Message -------- Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Natural
Farming From: iyo_farm <iyo.farm@ymail.com>

This is a genuine question which has been on my mind.

Agriculture for most is not a hobby or elite indulgence, it is a
necessity. It is a necessity for all.

Farming is done by farmer. Farmers live in communities and have to
organize those communities to work. They have to work collectively
and deal with issues that arise.

The concept of Natural Farming goes further than just food
production or business consulting. It is said to be the perfection
of the self and by extension the perfection of the community and
by extension the perfection of the planet.

Actually, this is one of the Buddhist essences of Fukuoka's work.

Therefore, how do we visualize and realize our perfect farming
community?

That is an open question.





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