permaculture

[venaurafarm <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>]

On 7/30/2012 7:52 AM, Daniel Jager wrote:
> Dear Scott, (and others)
>
> First of all, and for the record, I do NOT teach "permaculture" (nor
> do I want to) and I do not practice "permaculture", and I never
> claimed I did. I am here because I was invited to do so, and because
> "permaculture" holds closest to the ideas I have discovered myself. I
> studied Physical Geography / Landscape ecology, and spent much time
> in different ecosystems in many places on the globe. Due to my own
> observations I came to some insights very close to that of Fukuoka
> (to the dismay of my university Professors). Only later when I read
> the One Straw Revolution, did I realize that Nature communicates the
> same thing, over and over, to those who are AWARE. Sure, Fukuoka saw
> much much more than me, but that is not the issue. The issue is
> reaching understanding on one's own, not through being 'taught'.

But Daniel, when one learns the truths of Nature, gains an understanding 
of it on a personal level in a way that you know is unique to you and 
you have not adopted a mindset copied from others, you also become aware 
of the value of the works of others, i.e. Mollison, and realize that 
expanding your own knowledgebase, developing your own ideas, your 
enlightenment, moving forward with your life, incorporating the best 
that you have learned,
may mean that you need the benefits offered by 1) courses in academis 2) 
courses offered by permaculturists and agriculturists, homesteaders and 
many other teachers and groups who provide resources that enhance and 
append your learning experience and application of your acquired 
knowledge and experience to your chosen path in life. I speak for 
myself. I see this as a sort of preaching to the choir issue. We are 
pretty much on the same wavelength.

> The problem is that the indoctrination you speak of runs deeper than
> most people think. Even systems-thinking, and learning biological
> processes, etc, can again lead to 'organizations' that are stuck in a

> rut. I can already see it happening in Permaculture (even if
> permaculture still just has marginal influence). Larger movements and
> organizations always draw in a certain caliber of people, that will
> send it slowly on the decline. This is so because most people lack

I do not think this is happening on a serious level and it will never
stop the momentum of the permaculture movement or detract from the 
efforts of those responsible for this momentum.

> This is so because most people lack
> Self-knowledge,

Very true but permaculture can cause them to look inward and reorganize 
their lives by applying the principles basic to it to their lifestyles, 
learning from that and turning this process into a feedback system.
Keeping a journal helps also.

> and adore 'systems', 'protocols', 'methods' and the
> like. Yet without adequate Self-knowledge, any endeavor to 'improve
> our lot' is doomed to fail. Ideas form the basis of organizations,
> organizations create systems, systems become solidified, dogmatic,
> authoritarian, and we're back to square one.

Also very true. Try not to let your dogma eat your karma.

LL