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  • From: venaurafarm <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [permaculture] Fwd: RE: Permaculture standards a la Daniel Jager
  • Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 02:57:21 -0400

I think Scott meant to reply to the list, so am forwarding this post and several others following. LL

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [permaculture] Permaculture standards a la Daniel Jager
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 21:00:00 -0600
From: Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org>
To: 'venaurafarm' <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>

Actually it equates to educate all who have been indoctrinated in the
current educational system. Who in most cases are totally ignorant of
biological processes and ecological systems, let alone systems thinking, or
pattern literacy.

It was a combination of Bill being very well educated plus his observations
and experience plus intellectual collaboration with many who preceded him
like Odum.

Masanobu Fukuoka was a plant geneticist who worked for the Japanese
government before he inherited his farm and started with his system of
farming. He also was preceded by generations of Asian farmers who informed
his own methods.

Actually Bill Mollison and Fukuoka educated hundreds of students in their
methodology and taught observation skills to all their students. If you
don't know this then you have not been a good student of their writings let
alone their classes.

It seems to me you yourself are referring to the "ignorant masses" with your
last paragraph, and I have to disagree with your premise and your conclusion
regarding permaculture education. It has been taught since the beginning of
the '80's and there are tens of thousands of students now practicing around
the world and if anything they are responsible for a slight uphill movement.

You remind me of so many people I have met who say they have always done
permaculture and just didn't have a name for it - generally they are
speaking of organic gardening not permaculture.

Scott


"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way.
On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing."
~Arundhati Roy





-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Permaculture standards
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:25:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Daniel Jager <dfjager@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

I do not understand this incessant need to "get the message out". That
equates in my view with "educate the ignorant masses"!

Who or what educated Bill Mollison? Was it really his university
studies? Or were it his own observations and experience deep in the
forests of Tasmania?

Who educated Fukuoka? Was it not his own observations, his own awareness?

Question is: How can you possibly teach THAT to someone else. I say you
can't.

At best, a few students will grasp it, most will just repeat blindly
without looking, at worst you will get people that jump in and "help
organize to movement", to "make guidebooks on protocols and standards",
etc, and downhill from there.


Daniel




From: ChildrensPeaceGuild <childrenspeaceguild@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Permaculture standards.
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<1343227949.29306.YahooMailNeo@web161604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

> Once commercialized will mainstream people think they
can "do permaculture" and still wear a $5,000 dress?

That is a non-issue and serves only to distract. If Warren
Buffet
promoted permaculture from within a $20000000 mansion on his
own
tropical isle with a staff of 5000 people, including food
farmers
that would be just fine as long as his message was
consistent with
the high standards of permaculture maintained by any and all
with a
clear view of what it is all about. Overtly using it to sell
something
non-permaculture related would be unacceptable.
?
You're right. I probably could've worded that better, too.
My point was that the message "could" be compromised if
delivered by someone who could not have?made their
wealth?without violating the earthcare, peoplecare, and
fairshare ethics. If Warren Buffet promoted permaculture, I
would support it, but with natural reservations and
concerns.
I am all for getting the message out to the populace (after
all I have taught permaculture in?the public school system),
by any means necessary.
?
I was wondering how to keep the quality of the standards
consistent as more varied methods of
teaching/promoting/selling permaculture are attempted (like
the permaculture-tour telemarketer, for example). I think we
can all agree on that point.
?
Thank you for helping me to clarify my concerns.


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  • [permaculture] Fwd: RE: Permaculture standards a la Daniel Jager, venaurafarm, 07/29/2012

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