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  • From: Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] How to decide?
  • Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 22:19:27 -0700 (PDT)

Amen. As soon as we decide we "know" we risk shutting ourselves off from the
fruits of further observation. Thanks Toby for clarifying the state of mind
needed to perceive or observe things that might not agree with one's
preconceived notions. 


________________________________
From: ChildrensPeaceGuild <childrenspeaceguild@yahoo.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2012 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] How to decide?

Richard Dawkins said something along the lines of: Scientists are always
accused (in his case by creationists) of being know-it-alls, when in
actuality the best scientists are the one who embrace the phrase "I don't
know." Because that's immediately followed by "let's find out" or "let's look
into that" or "let's collect more data." The best scientists are the ones who
are humble, look at all the angles, and are always asking questions. In my
opinion the best permaculturalists are, too.
  

From: Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2012 11:34 AM
Subject: [permaculture] How to decide?

We all encounter cases like the one we've been debating here: where both
sides pull up all sorts of facts and anecdotes to support their position, and
ask "well, then, explain this one!" of their opponents. It leads to going
round and round on the facts, and rarely results in changing anyone's mind.
So how can you decide issues like climate, population, evolution, and germ
theory?
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] Sampling of bee and other pollinator sightings
this year by list subscribers wherever you are.
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We have plenty of bumblebees feeding on all our flowering trees and shrubs
(soft
fruit, top fruit, Eleagnus, willows etc.), social wasps, and a healthy hive of
bees - a feral swarm that moved into an old hive last year.
Farming around us is grass-based cattle and sheep, no tillage.
There is not much pesticide use, except some ignorant people spray roadside
margins, yards etc. and some farmers
spray roundup prior to ploughing-up and re-seeding grassland. Neonicotinoids
are thankfully not an issue around us. The evidence that this class of
pesticides is at least in part responsible for CCD is pretty damning though.

Ute in mid-West Ireland.

Saturday, May 5, 2012, 11:38:15 PM, you wrote:

JDh> I'd say about 20 % of the bumble bees we had last year at this time. No
JDh> honey bees at all and even wasps that seem to normally pollinate our
goose
JDh> berries are extremely rare.
JDh> That is not all. 5 days ago three (3) swallows arrived here out of the
70 or
JDh> so that left the farm last September. Four weeks late and no others have
JDh> come back so far.
JDh> John in SW Ireland





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