permaculture

[Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

Frances, I'm thinking of the windswept prairies where some of the apple trees 
Johnny Appleseed planted are still alive, and still producing. Others never 
did produce. I'm thinking of how strong that root stock is and how one could 
think of future generations by casting seeds in a zone 4 area and letting 
whatever grows, grow, so that the root stock, strong and fully adapted to the 
environment, could be used for highly productive scions. I'm thinking, that 
we need to take up less space, not more, with our food so it may be important 
to have highly productive fruit trees - this is especially true in urban 
areas, and commercial activity where land is limited. But if I had enough 
land to give some over to whatever nature will provide, I would let some 
things do what they will. Using root stock of natives is even better than 
planting apples in the prairie, if there is something that is compatible. 

Koreen


________________________________
 From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 8:09 PM
Subject: [permaculture] Fwd:  Fukuoka and trees
 
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [permaculture] Fukuoka and trees
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:12:46 -0700
From: frances and/or david <fdnokes@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>

Just reflecting a bit more on the Paul Wheaton interview with Larry 
Korn, reflecting on a historic visit with Fukuoka.
The bit about tree pruning was really interesting, and I would love to 
hear more on this topic. Perhaps some others who listened (or not) have 
more to pitch in on this topic.   Basically, Fukuoka as a devotee of 
nature, felt that pruning was unnatural and controlling, but that once 
it was started (usually at the nursery), there was no turning back. A 
natural tree will develop in a suitable pattern, often a whorl. 
Fukuoka, bless him, did not mind getting up into a tree on a ladder, 
and, if he couldn't reach every last apple, saw no harm done in leaving 
them for the wildlife that could access them.  What a different world 
this would be if more people thought like Fukuoka!  The mere fact that 
he spent his time in observation of nature would create a whole 
different ecosphere. I was interested in this comment about pruning.
Also interesting was his preference for growing fruit trees from seed.
Yes, some of them will bear fruit you can eat and others will bear fruit 
that others will eat... (We clear off an apple tree every year, and 
enjoy the apples in all kinds of ways, mostly juicing, blending, and 
eating out of hand -- the owners of the tree see them as 'cooking 
apples') And, if I'm not mistaken (but would welcome some 
clarification), apparently, some of the apple seed grown trees will just 
not bear any fruit at all?  At any rate, I am seeing that as part of a 
larger parcel of land, maybe even as part of a windbreak scheme?, apple 
trees from seed could be very beautiful. Anyone have anything to add on 
this topic of trees -- the natural way... ? This takes us back in time, 
and to a less demanding way of life, for ourselves and for the plants, too.
Frances

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Subject: [permaculture] Elephants in Permaculture
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I have some friends that volunteer at an elephant sanctuary, and when they 
found out that I had an interest in sustainability, they asked if I could 
give them some general advice on how to improve things at their foundation.
Although I cannot find much on Google that refers specifically to role of 
elephants in permaculture, I have already started collating interesting 
material, and I am now looking at it from a permaculture perspective.  I have 
a week to think about this before I go and look at their site, so I am 
starting by doing the traditional inputs/outputs/behaviours diagram, and see 
where that leads.  It is quite interesting to do the same exercise for an 
elephant that we have done so many times for a chicken.
In the meantime I am researching the wild foraging habits of the Asian 
elephant, the possibility of using their strength as an on-site alternative 
to earth moving and excavation equipment, and their general functions in 
ecological systems.  Obviously, any comments from other members would be very 
useful, as I am well out of my depth here.  These magnificent beasts are 
going to be great if we have to gley a dam, although I am not sure how much 
practical use an elephant tractor might be. ;-)


Chris