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  • From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [permaculture] Fwd: Re: [SANET-MG] is Harpin allowed in organic crops?
  • Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:53:35 -0500



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] is Harpin allowed in organic crops?
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:03:05 -0500
From: jcummins <jcummins@UWO.CA>
Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group <SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>, jcummins <jcummins@UWO.CA>
To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU

Hi John,
I believe that your concerns more than legitimate. The GM Harpin
proteins are being widely disseminated around the world and their
approvals outside of USA are very difficult to locate. Germany has
approved them as pesticides and UK seems to sell them openly they may
be on sale in North Ireland but the government approvals have not been
difficult to locate. Recently the US EPA allowed that Monsanto can
treat seeds with harpin proteins without adding indelible dye to the
seeds to signify that the seeds are treated with the GM protein. The
reason being that the seeds of soybean, corn, wheat m barley etc. can
be used as food or for planting without alarming people fed the seeds.
Of course nations importers of the GM treated seeds will not be
alerted to the trickery. A newly emerging use of nanoparticles to
encapsulate harpin proteins will also be hidden from those consuming
seeds from USA.
EPA's approval of harpin proteins was based mainly on the comment
that the protein from Erwinia bacteria was safe because the bacteria
were plant pests not human pests However, that opinion is not based on
the solid fact that some Erwinia bacteria are serious nosocomial
(hospital based ) pathogens! EPA has had so much general criticism from the National Academy of sciences representatives of Monsanto that they seem to have grown gun shy and they have begun to grow unconcerned about the safety of the human and animal populations of the world. Harpins may finally be proven to be effective plant disease control drugs while many of the claims of promoters of the harpins that the drug enhances photosynthesis and crop yield while killing most everything that crawls, molds or generally turn foods into goo are unlikely to be held up outside of the National Academy.
I hope that I have not seemed too dire in my approach. sincerely, joe
cummins

On 11/25/2011 11:59 PM, jcummins wrote:
Hi John,
Thanks for your comments. In the academic world the plant immune
system has finally been accepted and largely identified. The plant
immune system has an innate immunity layout that has features in
common with the innate immune system of animals including insects. It
is rather shocking that harpin has not been studied for its impact on
animals even though it does interact to control insects and and
nematodes.According to EPA Harpin is one of a class of proteins
produced in nature by certain bacterial plant pathogens. It acts by
eliciting a complex natural defense mechanism in plants, analogous to
a broad spectrum immune response in animals. While most pesticides act
directly on the target pest, Harpin, by contrast, elicits a protective
response in the plant that makes it resistant to a wide range of
fungal, bacterial, and viral diseases. Because Harpin does not
interact directly with disease pests, these organisms are not expected
to develop resistance to it.
Science 3 July 1992:Vol. 257 no. 5066 pp. 85-88 DOI:
10.1126/science.1621099
Harpin, elicitor of the hypersensitive response produced by the plant
pathogen Erwinia amylovora
A proteinaceous elicitor of the plant defense reaction known as the
hypersensitive response was isolated from Erwinia amylovora, the
bacterium that causes fire blight of pear, apple, and other rosaceous
plants. The elicitor, named harpin, is an acidic, heat-stable,
cell-envelope-associated protein with an apparent molecular weight of
44 kilodaltons.
The elicitor is a part of the the disease but it is necessary but
not sufficient to cause entire disease progression instead it
activates the plants innate immune system.. I do not agree with the
EPA view that resistance of pathogens to the elicitor will not be
observed even though the pathogens are dealt with by actions brought
about by the elicitor. I think it likely that the pathogens will
circumvent the hypersensitive response in time. At any rate it is
presently unclear what exactly has been done to the elicitor that
Monsanto and others are exposing the world to. USDA and EPA really
should open up information on the exact molecule being released around
the world. sincerely, joe cummins

On 11/25/2011 6:16 PM, John D'hondt wrote:

Joe, I am far from convinced that even human vaccines are harmless
and working. Take for instance the flu vaccine. In an average year
2.6% of the population may get the flu. Vaccinated people have a 1.4%
chance to get the flu. So at best it seems that flu vaccination may
protect an extra one % of the population at great cost. And if you
look carefully then you will find that all the studies in favor of
vaccination are sponsored by the vaccine producers. Many other
studies find that vaccines give no extra protection at all or may
cause a disease worse than the one vaccinated against. Shingles were
almost exclusively the problem of elderly people but as soon as the
vaccine against chicken pox came on the market even children now get
shingles. Gardasil to me is too foul for words but it makes it
obvious what drives this : profit.

I also am not sure that plants have an immune system that is anywhere
the same as that found in mammals. It is possible that plants produce
more phytochemicals as a reaction to a pathogen challenge but I have
never found that quantified. I have instead found many more complex
ecological responses in plant diseases I have studied not as a
scientist but as a farmer. I suspect that plants may exude a sort of
attractant to organisms that eat the disease that threatens them.
(definitely potato blight, clubroot in crucifers and onion rot) One
can get easily rid of these diseases completely by creating
ecological conditions that suppress the disease. I would suggest that
this is also the reason that compost tea works. And if fire blight
were a problem to me I would first try to compost infected plant
parts and make a compost tea from this going on past experience.

Further, even if Harpin actually works as advertised now, does this
not train plants eventually not to react to the real treat rather
instead of the opposite? Producing a phytochemical is always
expensive for the plant and if it is forced to do that continuously
when there is no real treat it might soon stop to react even when
eventually the real treat shows up. If on the other hand there exists
an organism that naturally fights fire blight and that is attracted
by Harpin then this may soon become extinct since it finds nothing to
eat when it arrives.

I have other questions. Is the harpin protein identical to the one
produced by fire blight? That is not completely obvious to me.

John

Thanks Margaret and all others responding to my question. I find
that those selling Harpen as an organic pesticide tend to very
misleading regarding the fact that the commercial product is
produced by a transgene in E coli. An example of such a pitch is
given below. Also its use in organic production is a slippery slope
and the GM harpen products are looming and these will likely be used
as a wedge to allow USDA to declare transgenic crops to be organic?
Bothell, Washington-based Eden Bioscience has developed the
pesticide alternative they've dubbed Messenger—a product that works
on plants much the same way that a vaccine protects humans from
disease.Utilizing harpin, a naturally occurring protein first
discovered at Cornell University, Messenger—which received EPA
approval in 2000—activates a plant's natural defense and growth
systems. Eden says Messenger's harpin technology provides broad
protection against disease and reduces damage caused by pests. This,
claims Eden, leads to improved plant growth, crop yield and quality.
Even though the EPA classifies Messenger as a biochemical pesticide,
growers can be assured they are being ecologically conscious when
they use Messenger. That's because the harpin protein in Messenger
is virtually nontoxic. In addition, the plant never actually absorbs
the protein.
http://www.albrightseed.com/newtechnology.htm
cheers, joe cummins

Important: EMPLOY is a natural product, but is not certified USDA
Organic and may not be used as part of a USDA Organic agriculture




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