permaculture

[Linda Ray <lindaray@att.net>]

Thanks John,
 
I've heard reports in the past of that 'brittleness' too. So you and I are in 
agreement- I wouldn't want the dry ice touching the sides/bottom/top of the 
bucket.
 
Some other important points IMHO:
Evaporating dry ice could result in condensation in surrounding material from 
the temperature change, which would be more easily spotted/monitored in the 
top of a container than by placing the ice at the bottom under everything. If 
the container is sealed while such condensation is present, then moisture is 
being sealed into the container with the goods. 
 
I think some details of effective drypack storage procedure may change with 
the local weather characteristics of wherever the goods are being 
packed/stored. For instance, the arid high desert I now live in is quite 
different from the extremely humid, hot and insect-ridden environment of S 
Florida, from whence I came.

This may not be important to some- I am a bit of a perfectionist with this 
type of thing.
 
Other folks have used tanks of CO2 ( a la welding supply, etc.) and hosed it 
into the container slowly (run the hose down through the material to the 
bottom), sealing after a period of time deemed sufficient to displace any 
inside air.

Namaste,
 
Linda
 
--- On Tue, 11/1/11, John D'hondt <dhondt@eircom.net> wrote:


From: John D'hondt <dhondt@eircom.net>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] The Permaculture saying, "Prepare for Disaster" 
and the mo...
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 4:57 PM



Freezer burn is mostly dehydration and it is not necessary to have storage 
above zero degrees. I have seen plenty of freezer burn in flash frozen fish 
that is then further kept at -21 C. Water always moves to the coldest place 
and in a freezer that is the cool unit and not the fish or meat in the 
center. Without precautions the outside layers of food will dry out in a 
freezer and that is irreversible in fish or meat.
It can easily be prevented by "glazing". This is coating the food with a 
layer of water (ice) during freezing. This is often much handier than 
wrapping every item individually in plastic.
And dry ice would not cause freezer burn in grains or seeds but it might 
make a plastic bucket brittle.
john

> Lawrence, what do you think would cause freezer burn from dry ice?
>
> From my reading the cause of freezer burn is primarily dehydration and
> secondarily oxidation, along with storage at temperatures above 0
> degrees F. Very cold local temperatures don't seem to have much if
> anything to do with it. A large part of the cure for meat is apparently
> wrapping to prevent dehydration. With grain I doubt there would be much
> of a problem with dry ice. I would expect exclusion of oxygen to be 
> helpful.
>
> If the Mormons recommend dry ice as Bob Waldrop says, their
> recommendation is probably based on a lot of practical experience. I
> would be inclined to take their word for it.
>
> Doug Woodard
> St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
>
>
> On 10/31/2011 4:55 PM, Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> This sounds like the best way but unless some food-grade
>> insulating barrier were put on top of the dry ice then beans or grain in
>> direct contact with it might get "freezer burn" causing rot and eventual
>> contamination of the whole container of dried food. Could this happen?
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more 
> about this list here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> Garden Hand Tool Sourcelist and Biointensive Gardening Guide
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/documents/gardening-hand-tools.faq
> permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
> Market Farming Mailing List
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/marketfarming
>
>
> 


_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more about 
this list here:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Garden Hand Tool Sourcelist and Biointensive Gardening Guide
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/documents/gardening-hand-tools.faq
permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
Market Farming Mailing List
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/marketfarming