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permaculture - Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Re: [SANET-MG] strategies for boron rich and/or hydrophobic soils

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  • From: Neil Bertrando <neilbertrando@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Re: [SANET-MG] strategies for boron rich and/or hydrophobic soils
  • Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 10:41:33 -0700

Hi all,

thanks for your responses and thoughts on this situation.

Thomas, I agree with your statements regarding 'invasive' plants, and this
has been our approach from the beginning. I would like nothing more than to
demonstrate this concept of the beneficial qualities of invasives in
practice, which could lead to alternative methods to the standard spray with
herbicides till it can't grow method. This was one of the goals of our
project: to provide alternatives. However, we're running up against the
difficulty of getting *any* seed to germinate at the site. I'm not
'against' invasives, rather I advocate for 'monoculture mitigation' and
improvement of ecosystem processes. We have been using the 'invasive' to
mulch the area when mowed, and have some preliminary data that suggest it
concentrates boron in its tissues. One thought is to harvest it for ethanol
production which would also remove some Boron from the site (although it
might create some issues with the Dept of Env. Protection with Boron being
distributed via liquid fuel exhaust). We are able to get 4-5 cuttings per
year with no irrigation which seems to be a good 'yield'. Cows suffer from
a B vitamin deficiency when grazed on it for more than a few days, so that
has been a struggle as well (included with other animal mgmt issues at the
site). If we had more time to work with the site, we had proposed to use it
as small windbreaks to help establish tree belts which could add to the OM
litterfall and create microclimates such as shaded areas and snow catchment.

We are open to suggestions on strategies that would allow us to 'befriend'
this plant in a useful and cost effective manner since it is a major issue
in the western US.

We don't have M3 tests, our CEC is Ammonium saturation method. currently
our Ca % is 60-72% with S-SO4 at 20-60 ppm. not quite the ranges suggested,
but how does this compare with the M3 method? Also, since we're trying to
work with Soil Food Web methods to increase fungal activity and SO4 is a
fungicide, this might be counterproductive to our efforts.

Does anyone have a list of labs that provide the M3 method for CEC
calculations??? from some extension papers I read, it doesn't look like
that much of a better method than the Ammonium Saturation so any explanation
of this would be helpful as well.

We do not have much more time to work on this site, and we would like to
gather as much information as possible to improve our techniques and
strategies in application.

Thanks so much,
Neil

On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Lawrence F. London, Jr. <
venaurafarm@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] strategies for boron rich and/or hydrophobic soils
> Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 15:23:50 -0400
> From: Michael Astera <michael.astera@GMAIL.COM>
> Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group
> <SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>, Michael Astera
> <michael.astera@GMAIL.COM>
> To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU
>
> Mike-
>
> Those making recommendations usually want to work with a soil test method
> they are familiar with. I see tests done with many different methods; they
> tell different stories and are useful for different purposes. There are a
> few private labs in the US, Australia, and Europe that understand and work
> with soils based on CEC calculations; I don't know of any government or
> university affiliated labs that do so.
>
> I suggested the M3 method because it's the best one I know of for measuring
> actual soil reserves as opposed to what's readily available to the crop.
> My
> experience has been that when CEC is calculated and the major cations and
> other elements (including P) are adjusted/amended using M3 test results,
> the
> response will be linear, direct, and predictable. That isn't the case with
> other tests.
>
> For soils above pH 7, excess cations will be extracted with the M3 solvent;
> you have to expect that and take it into account. Above pH 7.5 I would
> definitely go with a Ca saturation of 80 or 85% of "calculated" CEC and
> maximum Sulfur. That alone will do a lot to compensate for any distortions
> caused by free cations in the soil.
>
> The other option would be to find a lab that first extracted and measured
> the free, non-adsorbed cations, and then extracted with the Mehlich 3.
> That
> would give a better indication of true cation exchange capacity in a high
> pH
> soil.
>
> Michael Astera
> http://soilminerals.com
>
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>




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