permaculture

[Neil Bertrando <neilbertrando@gmail.com>]

Thanks for the link Andrew.  I met Gordon at the Quivira Coalition
conference last Nov.  He's a wealth of info about trees, especially fruit
trees with long chill hours.

I sent Cory some info off-list, but thought people here might be interested
as well.

Here's the nurseries I think might help people in cold and arid climates and
various warmer, wetter 4-season climes as well.

Lawyer Nursery in Montana: great wholesale trees for windbreak and
multifunctional support and timber plantings.  lots of cold and drought
hardy plants
http://www.lawyernursery.com/

Northwoods nursery: wholesale division of One Green World.  I think you need
to call to get their availability and order form.
http://www.onegreenworld.com/

Cummings Nursery: NY nursery with lots of rootstock and scion options and
more.
http://www.cumminsnursery.com/

You might also want to contact Oikos nursery.  their trees are very small
and need growing out, but they are closer to you (michigan I think) and they
may be open to options if you talk with them directly.  they have an amazing
selection of nut and support trees.
http://www.oikostreecrops.com/

Clifty View Nursery in Idaho.  I haven't bought from them, but my friend
Nate recommended them to me.
http://www.cliftyview.com/

Cold Stream Farm Nursery.  They offer several species of trees that were a
little harder to source at other nurseries for wholesale prices, but they
don't require bulk orders, though they price break at quantity.
I had moderate success with their trees this year. some arrived in amazing
shape, some a little scraggly.  we had a late cold season this year, so I'm
still waiting another week before contacting them re: waking up of trees.  I
too am working on a shoestring budget, so I bought the smallest trees which
may have been part of the reason. you may want to call and talk directly to
someone at the nursery before ordering.
http://www.coldstreamfarm.net/

also, here's a couple of bareroot sources our friend Michael Janik
recommends http://www.michaelsapples.com/links.html

And I always check to see if there is a nearby state tree nursery (check
division and department of forestry for your state, and other states) some
will ship out of state.  I've bought from Virginia and Colorado and here in
Nevada.  sometimes they have great trees and usually the prices are ~$1-2
per tree.  often require bulk orders 25-50 in a bundle.  I found Lespedeza
bicolor and Amorpha fruticosa at the Virginia dept. which were hard for me
to source from other location for a reasonable price.  some links.
http://www.dof.virginia.gov/nursery/index.htm
http://www.wvforestry.com/nursery.cfm?menucall=nurse
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/forestry/nurseries/index.html


hope this is helpful for northern USA folks.
neil

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 8:43 PM, Andrew Millison <amillison@gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello,
> Tooley's Trees in Truchas, New Mexico, has some of the most hardy and
> drought adapted heirloom varieties of fruit trees available in the arid US
> interior. Gordon Tooley did a bunch of heirloom fruit tree salvage and
> grafting instruction on the Hopi rez when I was up there. If you get in
> contact with him, he may be able to give you the rez permaculture deal.
> He's
> a really great guy who has spent decades locating and propagating the
> hardiest stock for high elevation arid climates.
>
> Here's his website:
> http://tooleystrees.com/
>
> Good luck,
> Andrew Millison
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Loren, good to here from you!  What you're doing sounds really great
> > too!
> > We have created contour swales and we use mulch and deep water trees when
> > first planted. Soils are clay so they do retain moisture especially with
> > mulch. We're using a number of drylands techniques to capture water such
> as
> > you outlined. There is so much dry wind here that I'm not sure about the
> > condensation techniques but this site is experimental so we could try it
> and
> > see what happens. There are some mulberries that grow up here, we've been
> > checking out the local wisdom on fruit trees. We can't grow pines because
> > cattle abort if they eat pine needles, and this is a cattle ranch.
> > Neil,  We do not have suppliers lined up, and anything that can cut our
> > costs will allow us to provide more outreach to more people so we would
> love
> > any contacts, etc, you may have. We are connected to a couple of other
> food
> > security projects on the rez that have soils prepared and some more
> > sheltered areas where we could get some fruit trees started (including
> some
> > community gardens) so we can use pretty much all we can get.
> > We do get rains in the summer, sometimes a couple inches or more at a
> time.
> > It's not like S Cal where you get no rain for 3 months straight, or more!
> >  But we still need to be clever about catching water... Thanks much for
> your
> > advice and support.
> > Cory
> >
> > --- On Thu, 5/26/11, loren luyendyk <loren@sborganics.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: loren luyendyk <loren@sborganics.com>
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] Food forest on the rez
> > To: "Permaculture Listserve" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Date: Thursday, May 26, 2011, 5:29 PM
> >
> >
> > Hi Cory-
> >
> > A while ago there was a thread on atmospheric water harvesters (
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_well_%28condenser%29,), or dew
> harvesters
> > .  In the Pine Ridge area you may be able to condense atmospheric water
> with
> > sheet metal or plastic "mulch" placed around the young trees and angled
> > towards the tree so that dew and condensation drips onto the plants ((
> > http://www.plastemart.com/upload/Literature/write-up_for_plastmart.asp),
> > though this still may be hard in the summer.
> >
> > Rough mulch of logs and rocks will also help to preserve and condense
> > water.  Soil prep should also include earthworks to harvest any rainwater
> > that does fall.  I know that you have a long and hot dry season to span,
> and
> > any tree will need some supplemental water for the first year at least.
> >
> > As far as plant selection, may I suggest looking into nut pines (korean,
> > etc) for windbreaks.  These can handle severe frost and wind and also
> > provide nutritious nuts!  For expediency, I would also look into any
> plants
> > you can do from cuttings, like mulberry (if they will survive).
> >
> > Best of luck!  Sounds like a great project!
> > Loren Luyendyk
> > Permaculture Designer and Educator
> > (805) 452-8249
> > www.sborganics.com
> > www.surferswithoutborders.org
> > www.globalpermaculture.com
> >
> > Upcoming Permaculture Design Courses:
> > Liberia, Africa
> > August 8-21, 2011
> > www.peaceinpermaculture.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 13:58:03 -0700
> > > From: neilbertrando@gmail.com
> > > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > Subject: Re: [permaculture] Food forest on the rez
> > >
> > > Cory,
> > >
> > > Do you have the ability to purchase from wholesale nurseries?  this can
> > > often really drop your costs.  you may need a resellers/retailers
> > > certificate, but if you have a not for profit or some other business
> (or
> > you
> > > call and explain the situation) that will probably work.  Also, if you
> > > aren't currently connected, I recommend NAFEX (North American Fruit
> > > Explorers) for access to scion wood and rootstocks and people with lots
> > of
> > > experience growing fruit trees on this continent.
> > >
> > > http://www.nafex.org/
> > >
> > > <http://www.nafex.org/>You may already have your contacts and
> suppliers
> > > lined up.  If you don't, let me know and I'll try and connect you with
> > some
> > > leads.
> > >
> > > I personally have struggled with getting plants established without
> some
> > > soil prep (as Darren suggested), especially with little to no
> irrigation.
> > >  I'm not sure what your rainfall regime is there, but if it is low to
> nil
> > > during the warm season and you want to establish trees without
> > irrigation, I
> > > recommend looking at some establishment strategies such as deep pipe
> > > irrigation, Driwater (they may provide you with a some opportunities if
> > you
> > > partner with them for research purposes), soil gels, growing trees out
> in
> > > deep pot bands, or some other means of maintaining soil moisture and
> > > encouraging deep rooting.
> > >
> > > It is inspiring to hear about the work y'all are doing there.  Best of
> > luck,
> > > Neil
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi, Darren,
> > > > Thank you for the advice. Common Vision is a good idea - didn't think
> > they
> > > > traveled out of S. Calif but worth a shot. We still want our own bus
> as
> > we
> > > > plan to use it as a mobile cultural and sustainability library for
> the
> > rez
> > > > and "multiple function" it to bring sustainability in several formats
> -
> > the
> > > > rez currently has NO public library!
> > > > I hear you on cheap stocks, we do plan to graft and buy cheap - we
> have
> > > > been working on a shoe string budget and we're all volunteering here,
> > and
> > > > have been getting a lot done, for the money. We constantly recycle,
> > reuse,
> > > > reduce.  We have access to some fairly mature windbreak stock and
> > already
> > > > have somewhat sheltered areas so we feel we can plant fruit trees
> this
> > year,
> > > > and we have some very nice composted soil from animal manures, etc.
> We
> > want
> > > > to get the nursery going so stuff can start growing now for next
> year.
> > > >  We'll be planting at least two food forests on the site (we have 42
> > acres),
> > > > the first one will be experimental to see what envelopes we can push
> > and how
> > > > we can push them. We will of course use our tools and knowledge and
> do
> > our
> > > > best to ensure maximal success. But we do need to push the envelope
> > here.
> > > > The reason being, is that the situation here is somewhat desperate on
> > the
> > > > subject of food and we really do not have the luxury of adding a lot
> > > >  of time to this activity. So the sooner we get this going, the
> better.
> > > >
> > > > --- On Fri, 5/20/11, Darren Doherty <darren@permaculture.biz> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: Darren Doherty <darren@permaculture.biz>
> > > > Subject: Re: [permaculture] Food forest on the rez
> > > > To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > > > Date: Friday, May 20, 2011, 11:31 AM
> > > >
> > > > G'day,
> > > >
> > > > Can I suggest that as a low/no cost option for establishing this
> system
> > > > that
> > > > you look at the following options:
> > > >
> > > > A. Contact Common Vision <http://www.commonvision.org> who are
> already
> > > > doing
> > > > the bus thing and are very fine people....plus their main game is
> > planting
> > > > fruit trees en masse...
> > > > B. Look to sourcing cheap rootstocks and/or growing seedlings from
> > locally
> > > > grown fruit trees and then doing some grafting...
> > > >
> > > > If you are growing windbreaks then you have the time to do point B.
> > until
> > > > such time as these get established. Sometimes in exposed/new sites
> its
> > a
> > > > good idea to do a year's preparation of soils and sites before you
> > plant:
> > > > that's our experience though of course you can, with capital and
> > materials,
> > > > push the envelope....but the can is being rattled so perhaps a more
> > > > deliberate, high quality job can be done....
> > > >
> > > > All the best,
> > > >
> > > > Darren
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 20 May 2011 15:35, Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > We want to put a food forest on the rez (Pine Ridge Lakota
> > reservation)
> > > > > this spring as a demonstration and propagation site, but we're also
> > doing
> > > > a
> > > > > large kitchen garden and some other projects that took up our
> budget,
> > so
> > > > we
> > > > > had put that idea aside - until someone made a Kickstarter video
> for
> > us
> > > > and
> > > > > it started raising funds. We got excited - we now feel we can do
> > this!
> > > > We
> > > > > have the manpower and equipment to get the holes dug, windbreak
> trees
> > in,
> > > > > swales put in, etc. We're planning a no-irrigation food forest that
> > will
> > > > be
> > > > > self-contained. We've been madly researching and want to experiment
> > with
> > > > a
> > > > > number of fruit species, using some microclimates to get them to
> grow
> > in
> > > > > this relatively harsh climate. We are really excited about this
> > because
> > > > it
> > > > > is getting some interest and support on the rez and we think it
> will
> > > > catch
> > > > > on. Along with the food forest will be youth tree planting events,
> > > > > education, outreach, etc. If we get enough funds we could get our
> > > > >  permaculture bus repaired and activated and take our show on the
> rez
> > > > road.
> > > > >  Please consider supporting the project and forwarding to your
> > friends!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/olceri/pine-ridge-food-forest-growing-food-security-on-th?ref=live
> > > > > Mitakuye Oyasin,
> > > > > Cory Brennanfacebook.com/
> > olcerifacebook.com/permacultureguild4olceri.org
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > permaculture mailing list
> > > > > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > > Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out
> > more
> > > > > about this list here:
> > > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > > > > permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
> > > > > Texas Plant and Soil Lab
> > > > > http://www.texasplantandsoillab.com/
> > > > > List contacts: permacultureforum@gmail.com,
> > > > chrys@thefutureisorganic.netand
> > > > > paul@richsoil.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Hooroo,
> > > > Darren J. Doherty
> > > > UPCOMING EVENTS
> > > >
> > > > 2011 RegenAG <http://goog_1946592595>® <http://www.regenag.com/>
> > Workshop
> > > > Series Australia & Aotearoa/New Zealand
> > > > Autumn 2011 EU RegenAG® Tour with Darren Doherty - Spain, UK,
> Germany,
> > EU
> > > > _________________________________________
> > > > AUSTRALIA FELIX PERMACULTURE
> > > > Broadacre Permaculture Design & Development
> > > > International Permaculture Education
> > > >
> > > > Patron Fundacion + Arboles <http://www.masarboles.org/>, España
> > > > Head of RegenAG®, Ecosystem Investment Management Australia Pty.
> > > > Ltd.<http://www.eima.com.au/>
> > > > Vice President New Soil Security Inc. (US)
> > > > Originator: RegenAG® <http://www.regenag.com/> Workshop Series
> > > >
> > > > Web <http://www.permaculture.biz/>
> > > > <http://picasaweb.google.com/permaculture.biz>
> > > > PhotoLog <http://picasaweb.google.com/permaculture.biz>
> > > > Australia Felix Permaculture
> > > > Blog<http://www.australiafelixpermaculture.blogspot.com/>
> > > > RegenAG® Blog <http://regenag.blogspot.com/>
> > > >
> > > > skype: permaculture.biz
> > > > phone: +61 431 444 836
> > > > ___________________
> > > >
> > > > Note: If you do not wish to be on this mailing list then please
> advice
> > me
> > > > and you will be removed from future dispatches.....
> > > >
> > > > RegenAG® is a Registered Trademark of Darren J. Doherty
> > > >
> > > > This message is only for the use of the addressee. The contents of
> this
> > > > email (including attachments) may be privileged and confidential. Any
> > legal
> > > > privilege is not waived by mistaken delivery. If you are not the
> > intended
> > > > recipient or the person responsible for delivering the email or
> > attachments
> > > > to the intended recipient please notify the sender by return email or
> > by
> > > > telephone on +61 (0) 431 444 836 and purge the message stored in any
> > > > electronic medium.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > permaculture mailing list
> > > > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out
> more
> > > > about this list here:
> > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > > > permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
> > > > Texas Plant and Soil Lab
> > > > http://www.texasplantandsoillab.com/
> > > > List contacts: permacultureforum@gmail.com,
> > chrys@thefutureisorganic.netand
> > > > paul@richsoil.com
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > permaculture mailing list
> > > > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out
> more
> > > > about this list here:
> > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > > > permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
> > > > Texas Plant and Soil Lab
> > > > http://www.texasplantandsoillab.com/
> > > > List contacts: permacultureforum@gmail.com,
> > chrys@thefutureisorganic.netand
> > > > paul@richsoil.com
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > permaculture mailing list
> > > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more
> > about this list here:
> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > > permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
> > > Texas Plant and Soil Lab
> > > http://www.texasplantandsoillab.com/
> > > List contacts: permacultureforum@gmail.com,
> chrys@thefutureisorganic.netand
> > paul@richsoil.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more
> > about this list here:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
> > Texas Plant and Soil Lab
> > http://www.texasplantandsoillab.com/
> > List contacts: permacultureforum@gmail.com,
> chrys@thefutureisorganic.netand
> > paul@richsoil.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more
> > about this list here:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
> > Texas Plant and Soil Lab
> > http://www.texasplantandsoillab.com/
> > List contacts: permacultureforum@gmail.com,
> chrys@thefutureisorganic.netand
> > paul@richsoil.com
> >
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more
> about this list here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
> Texas Plant and Soil Lab
> http://www.texasplantandsoillab.com/
> List contacts: permacultureforum@gmail.com, chrys@thefutureisorganic.netand
> paul@richsoil.com
>