permaculture

[Darren Doherty <darren@permaculture.biz>]

G'day,

Thanks for this assessment Neil. I have been enlisted as a consultant to
this project and accordingly my intentions are similar to those you've
outlined, however are tempered by the status quo I see around the world in
my work in broadacre agriculture.

It is in fact very rare to see the full raft of Keyline Design concepts in
place. Even some of Yeoman's own properties didn't 'have it all'. The main
issue I would take with the suggestion that 'pilot scale plots are
insufficient' is the time problem. I.e. it would take a good 5-10-20 years
to get the full Keyline Design landscape developed to some state of maturity
where the contour strip forest systems are of a stature where their effects
on the system are developed enough IMO. Perhaps most pertinent is the
reality that most contemporary agricultural systems are not by any means
highly integrated systems, quite the opposite, and so to create useful
examples of research in this sphere some simplification is necessary lest we
create examples that the rank and file ag person is not going to identify
with, no matter how good they are.

There have been plenty of attempts to have such studies completed from
Yeomans himself to my international work and others with SARE applications
stateside etc all not being supported. Whatever the case many people here in
Australia and elsewhere understand enough of Keyline practices (as distinct
from the whole ideal system you speak of) that they are doing what they can,
and this starts with the rapid topsoil development, which for me is the most
important aspect of the Keyline system.

Our development of the RegenAG*®* concept has been to bring all of these
concepts together under the scope of HM Decision Making, explored using
Permaculture and other Ecological Design principles and applied using
Permaculture Ethics. We are encouraging land managers to use the tools that
best suit their situation. Science doesn't really inform many of the land
managers that we work with as they are much more interested in hearing from
other land managers and those without a product to sell.

Gotta run,

Ciao,

Darren

On 22 March 2011 08:57, Neil Bertrando <neilbertrando@gmail.com> wrote:

> Quick thought on this.
>
> Keyline Design's effectiveness is partially associated with it's
> application
> as a whole system design at a 'landscape' scale.  I encourage you to
> consider how you design your study plots' size and spatial relationships
> based on this info.  In my opinion, pilot scale plots are insufficient for
> assessment and analysis of Keyline Design (and probably for Keyline pattern
> cultivation effects as well).  If possible, whole farm plots would be
> ideal.
>  In either case, please consider the role of scale and how it may affect
> your results.
>
> I would love to see all the variables you mentioned tested.
>
> Another aspect to consider is the role of adaptive management and
> monitoring
> in the success of systems such as Keyline and Holistic planned grazing.
>  This makes it difficult to design an experiment with 'scientific rigor'
> since rotation is based on monitoring and response to changing
> environmental
> conditions and is not a set number of days that can be repeated from plot
> to
> plot throughout one year or on the same plot from year to year.  Not to say
> it cannot be done, just that it will be imagination intensive.
>
> If you haven't heard the interview with Dan Daggett on the Agroinnovations
> podcast, I suggest you check it out.  The discussion touches on the
> relationship between science and management, but not really Keyline.  I
> think that they hit the nail on the head with respect to the difficulty in
> assessing Permaculture and Holistic Management systems scientifically.  I
> hope you find the info useful with respect to your project design.
>
> here's a link,
>
> http://agroinnovations.com/index.php/en_us/multimedia/blogs/podcast/2010/10/episode-109-the-gardeners-of-eden/
>
> Perhaps the Resilience Science framework for studying Socio-Ecological
> systems could also provide some insights with regards to study design.
>
> This site may be helpful:
> http://rs.resalliance.org/
>
> cheers,
> Neil
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Rich Blaha <rich@mossbackfarm.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Mike
> >
> > These guys http://soilcarboncoalition.org/ have started the process
> > measuring pasture carbon sequestration...their sidebar link on monitoring
> > gives some good comprehensive methods for what you're trying to measure.
> >
> > Good luck.  We're looking at doing some similar trials...I look forward
> to
> > hearing how yours go
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Rich
> > www.mossbackfarm.com
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/14/2011 10:24 AM, permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:
> >
> >> Send permaculture mailing list submissions to
> >>        permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>
> >>        http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>        permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org
> >>
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >>        permaculture-owner@lists.ibiblio.org
> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> than "Re: Contents of permaculture digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >>    1. salmon-nettle soup with all native ingredients (paul wheaton)
> >>    2. Variables for Keyline System Trials (Michael Snow)
> >>    3. Bleeding Heartland:: ISU professor sounds alarm about future
> >>       of Leopold Center (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 14:12:30 -0700
> >> From: Michael Snow<msnow@valley.net>
> >> To: permaculture<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> >> Subject: [permaculture] Variables for Keyline System Trials
> >> Message-ID:<7CA24431-FA79-4061-B0CE-BDCB593B0297@valley.net>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >>
> >>
> >> Keyliners and Statisticians,
> >>
> >> As part of a grazers network in Maryland, we've acquired a yeoman's
> plow,
> >> with three shanks, coulters, standard toolbar, roller, seedboxes.  We
> are in
> >> a sensitive watershed, the Chesapeake Bay watershed, and work in part to
> >> encourage grass-based systems.
> >>
> >> We're designing a plan for evaluating it's use and effectiveness in
> >> improving soil quality, productivity, and environmental quality.  This
> is an
> >> initial trial - not intended to be a rigorous, long-term experiment in
> >> itself, but we do expect it to be used to make initial observations
> which
> >> might translate into more formal research.  That said, we'd like our
> trial
> >> to be tight and this is my request for assistance.
> >>
> >> This year, four farms are involved, and University extension will
> >> collaborate.  Two of these farms are organic dairies, one entirely
> >> grass-based and utilizing mob grazing, the other largely grass-based
> with
> >> some feed-crop production.  Of the other two sites, one is on Extension
> >> land, the other is a beef grazing operation.
> >>
> >> Although we have some funding and that collaboration, we are interested
> in
> >> monitoring perhaps 4-8 variables over three years, samples and tests
> largely
> >> pulled by farmers.  Have any of you been involved in formal research of
> >> keyline as a system?  Regardless, do you have any suggestions for
> building a
> >> protocol for this project?  A tentative list we are trying to whittle
> down
> >> so far includes:
> >>
> >>        Bulk density, porosity, aggregate stability, penetration
> resistance
> >>        Infiltration rate
> >>        N, P measurements and sediment load (to compare to Bay Program
> >> baselines)
> >>        Soil testing: biological (eg, soil food web, though expensive),
> >> chemical; Organic Matter; evaluating changes in the A horizon (depth,
> >> transition to B horizon)
> >>        Forage productivity: forage testing, both biomass and quality
> >> through fecal samples; percent cover and species diversity; brix
> >>        Milk production
> >>        Field moisture
> >>        The ever popular how'd-it-do test, subjective qualitative
> analysis
> >>
> >> Fields are divided to two, keeping soil class, texture, slope, and
> >> management consistent.  They'll be evaluated side by side.
> >>
> >> We do hope to develop this protocol in fairly short order.  Your
> >> suggestions are most welcome,
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> ******************************
> >>
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-- 
Hooroo,
Darren J. Doherty
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