permaculture

[Claudia Joseph <permie@earthlink.net>]

There are many composting toilets in NYC! Several community gardens have 
them.  I bet they are expensive but you could build one yourself, utilizing 
the designs that have worked.  A "honey trap" below the toilets catches urine 
to be used in fertilizing the garden.  There is a large pit underneath and 
even stairs built in so that you can access the solid waste compartment.  And 
they use solar powered fans.  All of the ones below are probably overbuilt, 
however they are functioning in very public situations! - Claudia

Installation of composting toilets in public facilities is catching on.  In 
New York City, The Bronx Zoo and Queens Botanical Garden have been operating 
restrooms with composting toilets, with no need for sewer lines, for the last 
few years.   The technology in both facilities is made by Clivus Multrum and 
resembles a conventional toilet, except that it uses only 3-6 ounces of 
water, in combination with a bio-compostable foam, for flushing.  And the 
toilets are odorless.  Seriously–we’ve used them, and we will vouch for the 
odorlessness.  The waste travels into a composting compartment, where it is 
mixed with woodchips and digested by microbes.  A below-ground exhaust system 
is in place to deal with smells as well. 

A new restroom facility at Manhattan’s Riverside Park Clay Tennis Association 
should ease the bladders of many a tennis player as well as the hearts of NYC 
environmentalists. The center, which has no real bathroom, has hired Cook + 
Fox Architects to perform a feasibility study for a solar-powered restroom 
facility that will be be carbon neutral and will feature composting toilets.

A third of the gardens employ rainwater catchment systems that capture rain 
from rooftops and garden structures to water plants and prevent stormwater 
runoff. About 8 percent of gardens have greenhouses to grow produce year 
round, and a handful even have composting toilets. Others give back to the 
community by partnering with local schools or neighborhood groups — nearly 
half of the gardens work with schools to give kids a hands-on opportunity to 
learn about food and nature.

To locate your closest community visit OASIS, and to download the complete 
survey, click here.

+ GrowNYC



















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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Prospero & leafgui (Michael Thompson)
>   2. Re: Composting toilet for Community Garden (loren luyendyk)
>   3. link for leafgui (Michael Thompson)
>   4. Re: Composting toilet for Community Garden (Jake Bucy)
>   5. Re: Composting toilet for Community Garden (Leslie Moyer)
>   6. Re: Composting toilet for Community Garden (Cory Brennan)
>   7. Life Within the Soil- Part 2 /Interview with Doug Weatherbee
>      Sustainable World Radio/Feb 2011
>      (Wesley Roe and Santa Barbara Permaculture Network)
>   8. Re: Composting toilet for Community Garden (Neil Bertrando)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:49:27 -0500
> From: Michael Thompson <mike.brian@gmail.com>
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: [permaculture] Prospero & leafgui
> Message-ID:
>       <AANLkTin_zpp-sfYSup4erzuSZBLG6bp37XF8SwPsNrzD@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> This was on hackaday lately:
> http://hackaday.com/2011/02/21/farmbot/#more-35532
> "Prospero is the working prototype of an Autonomous Micro Planter 
> (AMP)....."
> nifty, but I didn't look to see if it was open source or not.
> 
> It reminds me of another hackaday entry for software that
> 'fingerprints' plants by leaf vein structure, I wonder if it will end
> up on cellphones cams for GM IP enforcement/avoidance?
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 03:04:13 +0000
> From: loren luyendyk <loren@sborganics.com>
> To: Permaculture Listserve <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Composting toilet for Community Garden
> Message-ID: <COL105-W444A9A9E515FB1526D1DFDA8DB0@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> 
> 
> Scott-
> You may want to take a look at the book "Toilets that Make Compost" 
> (download free: http://www.ecosanres.org/toilets_that_make_compost.htm).  
> Many designs of different toilets, but mostly for tropical climate.  You 
> may consider whether or not you want to do urine diversion.  Urine may help 
> in the winter to heat things up (nitrogen), though you want to make sure 
> its not too wet.  You probably want to build the composting chamber super 
> insulated with cob so that it doesn't freeze.  Worms are great addition to 
> the compost chamber but need some warmth.
> I assume in Maine you have water, so you may consider a methane digesting 
> toilet (link: http://www.cityfarmer.org/biogasPaul.html).  You get methane 
> gas and also can worm compost the sludge for use on crops.
> Loren Luyendyk
> (805) 452-8249
> www.sborganics.com
> www.surferswithoutborders.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:43:44 -0800
>> From: cobanation@yahoo.com
>> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Composting toilet for Community Garden
>> 
>> Dear Scott,
>> The oder issues are because they aren't maintained properly and that 
>> people 
>> think they are going to smell. Use glass blocks to let in the sun to rise 
>> the 
>> air and put roses herbs of all kinds on the intake vent of the small cob 
>> building. Find an artist to build cute microb puppets that educate the 
>> people 
>> and for good measure put the prices of sewage treatment plants framed on 
>> the 
>> wall. Don't forget the stories of how our oceans and water supply is being 
>> polluted. oh, but wait, there's plenty of leaves people rake up throw away 
>> killing their trees you can use. Finally, find all the peddles of the 
>> roses, 
>> flowers and anything organic that smalls nice and make duff that can 
>> sweeten the 
>> load as a poopery garden soil. Hope that helps.
>> 
>> P.S. Europe has composting toilet everywhere and haven't had problems. 
>> It's just 
>> that the USA is really uneducated about it.         
>> The Great Challenges we now face as a species present the very 
>> opportunities 
>> that are giving birth to Ecological, Psychological, and Spiritual 
>> Sustainability.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Scott Vlaun <scott@moosepondarts.com>
>> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 7:32:03 AM
>> Subject: [permaculture] Composting toilet for Community Garden
>> 
>> HI All,
>> 
>> Our community garden in Norway Maine is looking for a "best practice" 
>> solution 
>> to compost human waste on site. (Not for use in the garden)
>> 
>> Since the garden is in a neighborhood, we need to avoid any odor issues. 
>> I'm a 
>> long-time sawdust/bucket/bin humanure composter, but for a public site 
>> like this 
>> we need something that requires no handling of "live" waste and will be a 
>> good 
>> demonstration/model for the community.
>> 
>> During the season we might have a dozen or more people using the toilet on 
>> a 
>> given day. Winter use would be very limited, but it would be great to have 
>> a 
>> system that works in the cold as well. The site is off-grid so high 
>> electric use 
>> is not an option.
>> 
>> Any thoughts, links, or references to working systems would be much 
>> appreciated.
>> 
>> Enjoy the strengthening sun!
>> 
>> Scott
>> 
>> 
>> Scott Vlaun Moose Pond Arts+Ecology Design Solutions for a Sustainable 
>> Future
>> 450 Main Street, Studio 2, Norway, Maine 04268 ? 207-739-2409
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>                                         
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 22:17:32 -0500
> From: Michael Thompson <mike.brian@gmail.com>
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: [permaculture] link for leafgui
> Message-ID:
>       <AANLkTikRUROFOcbW-k0CQUqEZpQ5uGXPyw1=s9XaSyza@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> Forgot to link to the leaf software:
> http://gtresearchnews.gatech.edu/leaf-veins/
> 
> And that was just a bit of idle speculation about it's usefulness,
> from the source it goes like,
> ""The software can be used to help identify genes responsible for key
> leaf venation network traits and to test ecological and evolutionary
> hypotheses regarding the structure and function of leaf venation
> networks,? said Joshua Weitz, an assistant professor in the Georgia
> Tech School of Biology."
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:54:18 -0600
> From: Jake Bucy <jakebucy@gmail.com>
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Composting toilet for Community Garden
> Message-ID:
>       <AANLkTinGGDxnZP=TVoMD-2zUOXVtAD_Y0rffZ_f_epnq@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> Scott,
> 
> You should look into the Phoenix Composting toilet.
> 
> http://www.compostingtoilet.com/
> 
> I have personally used one at Smith Rock State Park in Oregon, where it
> freezes a lot.  They are excellent for the community scale application you
> mentioned.
> 
> Good luck, I hope it helps.
> 
> 
> Jake
> 
> 
> -- 
> ?True security rests on a supportive and sustainable ecological base, on
> spiritual as well as material well-being, on trust and reliance in one?s
> neighbors, and on justice and understanding in a disarmed world? -Frank
> Barnaby
> 
> "A useful contract with the earth places man not as superior to nature but
> as a superior intelligence working in nature as a conscious and therefore as
> a responsible part in a plan of evolution, which is a continuing creation."
> -Liberty Hyde Bailey
> 
> "The object of Agriculture is to feed and clothe people. Two things will
> guarantee this happens with maximum efficiency.  Firstly, farming must be
> prosperous and secondly, soil fertility must constantly improve." -P.A.
> Yeomans
> 
> "Earth turns to gold in the hands of the wise"  -Rumi
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 22:37:43 -0600
> From: Leslie Moyer <unschooler@lrec.org>
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Composting toilet for Community Garden
> Message-ID: <8DB9DB03-E8C3-459D-BC3B-C98298934B29@lrec.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> You might look at a Sunny John mouldering toilet, too.  It has some of the 
> features Ray mentioned, including a solar-assist ventilation system:
> http://www.sunnyjohn.com/
> 
> 
> On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:32 AM, Scott Vlaun wrote:
> 
>> HI All,
>> 
>> Our community garden in Norway Maine is looking for a "best practice" 
>> solution to compost human waste on site. (Not for use in the garden)
>> 
>> Since the garden is in a neighborhood, we need to avoid any odor issues. 
>> I'm a long-time sawdust/bucket/bin humanure composter, but for a public 
>> site like this we need something that requires no handling of "live" waste 
>> and will be a good demonstration/model for the community.
>> 
>> During the season we might have a dozen or more people using the toilet on 
>> a given day. Winter use would be very limited, but it would be great to 
>> have a system that works in the cold as well. The site is off-grid so high 
>> electric use is not an option.
>> 
>> Any thoughts, links, or references to working systems would be much 
>> appreciated.
>> 
>> Enjoy the strengthening sun!
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 01:30:36 -0800 (PST)
> From: Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Composting toilet for Community Garden
> Message-ID: <174046.66298.qm@web121616.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> Another one is the one done by Anna Edey of solviva.com, she says she can 
> break down human waste into black potting soil in 2 months using worms and 
> her particular design which doesn't entail handling the waste directly 
> until it has completely broken down.
> 
> --- On Tue, 2/22/11, Leslie Moyer <unschooler@lrec.org> wrote:
> 
> From: Leslie Moyer <unschooler@lrec.org>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Composting toilet for Community Garden
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 8:37 PM
> 
> You might look at a Sunny John mouldering toilet, too.? It has some of the 
> features Ray mentioned, including a solar-assist ventilation system:
> http://www.sunnyjohn.com/
> 
> 
> On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:32 AM, Scott Vlaun wrote:
> 
>> HI All,
>> 
>> Our community garden in Norway Maine is looking for a "best practice" 
>> solution to compost human waste on site. (Not for use in the garden)
>> 
>> Since the garden is in a neighborhood, we need to avoid any odor issues. 
>> I'm a long-time sawdust/bucket/bin humanure composter, but for a public 
>> site like this we need something that requires no handling of "live" waste 
>> and will be a good demonstration/model for the community.
>> 
>> During the season we might have a dozen or more people using the toilet on 
>> a given day. Winter use would be very limited, but it would be great to 
>> have a system that works in the cold as well. The site is off-grid so high 
>> electric use is not an option.
>> 
>> Any thoughts, links, or references to working systems would be much 
>> appreciated.
>> 
>> Enjoy the strengthening sun!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more 
> about this list here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
> List contacts: permacultureforum@gmail.com and paul@richsoil.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 08:07:59 -0800
> From: Wesley Roe and Santa Barbara Permaculture Network
>       <lakinroe@silcom.com>
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: [permaculture] Life Within the Soil- Part 2 /Interview with
>       Doug Weatherbee Sustainable World Radio/Feb 2011
> Message-ID: <p06240802c98ae14d4140@[10.0.0.104]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
> 
> Mon, 21 February 2011
> 
> http://pdcastsusworldradio.libsyn.com/life-within-the-soil-part-2-of-an-interview-with-microbe-farmer-doug-weatherbee
> 
> Life Within the Soil- Part 2 of an Interview with Doug Weatherbee
> Part 2 of an interview with the Soil Doctor, Doug Weatherbee. 
> http://soildoctor.org/
> 
> In this interview, Doug talks about soil organic matter, carbon 
> sequestration, how to tend your soil to support either fungal or 
> bacterial populations, and how home gardeners can minimize soil 
> disturbance and increase soil fertility.
> 
> 
> http://pdcastsusworldradio.libsyn.com/life-within-the-soil-part-2-of-an-interview-with-microbe-farmer-doug-weatherbee
> 
> "Making More With Microbes"
> 2011 Soil Training Programs
> New Mexico, March 21-24
> http://www.adelanteconsulting.com/?page_id=411881
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 09:17:41 -0800
> From: Neil Bertrando <neilbertrando@gmail.com>
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Composting toilet for Community Garden
> Message-ID:
>       <AANLkTi=VjkC9VSGo3k5H-x36enQD2AP28Bon8ZOVG60K@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> I followed this train of thought through till we hit some financial
> setbacks.  still on the drawing board for county approved toilets, although
> we have some engineered plans we can share if you like....still need some
> feedback on them too.
> 
> I have several documents I can send you off list if you like as well.
> 
> My thoughts on high levels of use are either large batch chambers or a
> removable batch container (ie. wheelie bin, 55 gal. barrel, etc.) so you can
> manage for various use levels that may be unpredictable during the design
> phase.  In the latter case, you need to find a place to store these (an
> passive solar, insulated cob closet???)  In either case the system could
> have a large footprint.
> 
> I prefer to avoid the urine diversion systems and balance with good
> ventilation, a significant carbon sponge, and behavioral systems (i.e. guys
> pee in the bush when possible), then drainage if necessary.  for balancing
> moisture look at the wet tropics compost toilet systems.
> 
> also "the composting toilet book". by david del porto is a very useful
> reference.
> 
> for temperature, insulation is important, you could also consider some solar
> thermal air heaters, flat plate or tube collectors can be fabricated with
> mostly recycled materials. not sure how well they would work at your
> latitude, but you could set up some louvres to manage the system...  here's
> a website for more info and some designs.
> http://www.knowledgepublications.com/heat/solar_air_heating_full_product.htm
> 
> RE: some resources here's the text from another email thread
> 
> best of luck,
> neil
> 
> As per Request, here's the links I recieved, which demonstrate recent trends
> around this issue in various states.  Good starting places for contacting
> people who are dealing directly with the process.
> 
> http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/06/cities-contemplate-the-composting-toilet/
> http://www.sonomacountygazette.com/blog/2009/12/sonoma-county-composting-toilet-project.html
> http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1945764,00.html
> 
> "Call the Inyo County Planning Department at 760-878-0263.  Years ago a
> strawbale house was put up in Independence, Ca that had the first permitted
> composting toilet in California, I believe"
> 
> The Washington State Document was really helpful since they have best
> management practices and codes as well as design criteria (although not
> engineered specs).
> the PDF link is
> http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehp/ts/ww/Water_Conservation_8-29-07.pdf
> also they have a whole array of documents listed alphabetically here:
> http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehp/ts/ww/pubs-ww-all-bytitle.htm
> 
> learning process,
> neil
> 
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:30 AM, Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> Another one is the one done by Anna Edey of solviva.com, she says she can
>> break down human waste into black potting soil in 2 months using worms and
>> her particular design which doesn't entail handling the waste directly 
>> until
>> it has completely broken down.
>> 
>> --- On Tue, 2/22/11, Leslie Moyer <unschooler@lrec.org> wrote:
>> 
>> From: Leslie Moyer <unschooler@lrec.org>
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Composting toilet for Community Garden
>> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 8:37 PM
>> 
>> You might look at a Sunny John mouldering toilet, too.  It has some of the
>> features Ray mentioned, including a solar-assist ventilation system:
>> http://www.sunnyjohn.com/
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:32 AM, Scott Vlaun wrote:
>> 
>>> HI All,
>>> 
>>> Our community garden in Norway Maine is looking for a "best practice"
>> solution to compost human waste on site. (Not for use in the garden)
>>> 
>>> Since the garden is in a neighborhood, we need to avoid any odor issues.
>> I'm a long-time sawdust/bucket/bin humanure composter, but for a public 
>> site
>> like this we need something that requires no handling of "live" waste and
>> will be a good demonstration/model for the community.
>>> 
>>> During the season we might have a dozen or more people using the toilet
>> on a given day. Winter use would be very limited, but it would be great to
>> have a system that works in the cold as well. The site is off-grid so high
>> electric use is not an option.
>>> 
>>> Any thoughts, links, or references to working systems would be much
>> appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Enjoy the strengthening sun!
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> permaculture mailing list
>> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more
>> about this list here:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>> permaculture forums http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
>> List contacts: permacultureforum@gmail.com and paul@richsoil.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> permaculture mailing list
>> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
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>> List contacts: permacultureforum@gmail.com and paul@richsoil.com
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> End of permaculture Digest, Vol 97, Issue 26
> ********************************************