permaculture

[Joan Stevens <mamabotanica@sbcglobal.net>]

I am jumping in where I have little background on where the conversation has 
gone - the hazards of those who only pop into this listserve every once in a 
while. 

There are some great examples of hierarchy in the natural world.  How about 
the 
way your body works - an assemblage of organs and systems that are 
controlled/prioritized by the brain (mostly)?  Or a lovely example from 
Janine 
Benyus (author of Biomimicry) of how muscle tissue is organized - smaller 
bundles arranged into larger groups that all perform their specific function 
in 
service to the larger whole (also ultimately directed by the nervous 
system/brain). 

Anyway, I'm a fan for not following any dogma about the "right way" to 
organize.  Seems like as permaculturists we ought to be flexible enough to 
recognize that difference purposes also require different kinds of structure. 
I 
wouldn't want my body organized by consensus.  You think your digits would 
willingly give themselves up to save your core body temperature?  Doubt it. 
and 
sometimes that's what's required to save the organism.
My $.02
Joan

 "...the greatest change we need to make is from consumption to production, 
even 
if on a small scale, in our own gardens. If only 10% of us do this, there is 
enough for everyone.
Hence the futility of revolutionaries who have no gardens, who depend on the 
very system they attack, and who produce words and bullets, not food and 
shelter." 



- Bill Mollison 

>From cory8570@yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 15:08:58 2010
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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 12:08:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] hierarchies and networks
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Standards only become isms when they are ossified or become controlled by 
entrenched, heirarchical vested interests and people forget where those 
standards came from. How about as part of the standards, we create 

1. a review and evolution process based on results and workability, so that 
the subject can continue to evolve as appropriate

2. a curriculum that enables people to think with the subject rather than 
rotely learn it 

#2 is one reason we focus on teaching principles of permaculture as the core 
curriculum, focusing on showing how many ways and in how many sectors they 
can be applied. Once one understands the basic laws of natural systems, and 
how to observe those systems, one is not nearly as likely to fall for "isms". 

If we focus on achieving multiple intelligence understanding of natural 
systems, we create life long students of those systems, rather than students 
of "isms".  The only real way to apply permaculture is by observing the 
system, there is no way around it. That is why I'm so thrilled with this 
subject, because to the degree we do that, we cannot end up with an "ism." 

Cory



--- On Mon, 11/1/10, jamesdavid Sneed <harvestcircle@hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: jamesdavid Sneed <harvestcircle@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] hierarchies and networks
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Monday, November 1, 2010, 11:03 AM
> 
> Both your messages are important things to consider. I
> suspect that if a standard of organization is implemented
> for permaculture it will be a sign that it has become an
> "ism" instead of a way of living. The ism tends to become a
> creature unto itself, and the original goals can suffer as a
> result.
>  
> > Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 21:25:26 -0400
> > From: lflj@bellsouth.net
> > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] hierarchies and networks
> > 
> > On 10/31/2010 5:54 PM, Toby Hemenway wrote:
> > > One subject we touched on in the recent
> certification thread was new and old tools for change, and
> the difference
> > > between hierarchical and decentralized
> organizations and tools. I'd said that I once had high hopes
> for decentralized
> > > leadership tools, like consensus, but was
> disappointed by how rarely they live up to their promise.
> I've been
> > > skeptical of the value of these and similar
> methods to actually produce change, and have found the
> older
> > > tools--strong leadership, old-style voting--at
> least as effective (though I still prefer inclusive versions
> of these
> > > tools to exclusive).
> > 
> > They say that the world is run by those who show up.
> > And, freedom of the press belong to those who own
> one.
> > 
> > However, these thoughts have been circulating lately:
> a permaculture heirarchical oversight organization
> > that offers, like a governmental agencies that have no
> teeth and only can offer recommendations at best to
> > those who do have the power to put laws, rule and
> regulations in place.
> > 
> > You vote with your feet. Permaculture teachers,
> organizations, consultants and designers and anyone who
> would hire a 
> > permaculture professional simply could require that
> they have proven expertise, knowledge and a certificate(s)
> of having 
> > completed training and fieldwork before being hired.
> This phoo could help those professionals in training by
> offering a 
> > set of permaculture standards, similar to the Organic
> Rule for USDA certified organic farms and an outline and 
> > description of standard coursework that should be
> required of anyone seeking status as a certified
> permaculture 
> > professional. This process could be elevated to
> community college and university level coursework.
> > 
> > Do read my suggestion about the need to recognize and
> help those who cannot afford any training but want to play a
> 
> > significant role in their communities as permaculture
> mentors, teachers, activists (political too, if necessary),
> > consultants, designers and local practitioners within
> a growing community of like-minded individuals (this would
> be so 
> > important to so many, just think about that if you're
> thinking about ways to make waves for forge the future).
> > 
> > > I was catching up on a stack of New Yorker
> magazines this morning, and in the Oct 4 issue there's an
> article that
> > > fits right in to this conversation, "Small
> Change" by Malcolm Gladwell. Gladwell is known for his book
> "The Tipping
> > > Point" and in general being a whole systems
> thinker. He's made the points I would have liked to have
> made. I was
> > > intrigued that he feels network tools aren't good
> for doing design, and that they are better at preserving the
> status
> > > quo than changing it. So here's a quote from the
> article.
> > >
> > > "Unlike hierarchies, with their rules and
> procedures, networks aren’t controlled by a single central
> authority.
> > > Decisions are made through consensus, and the
> ties that bind people to the group are loose. This structure
> makes
> > > networks enormously resilient and adaptable in
> low-risk situations. Wikipedia is a perfect example. . . .
> > 
> > >
> > > "The drawbacks of networks scarcely matter if the
> network isn’t interested in systemic change—if it just
> wants to
> > > frighten or humiliate or make a splash—or if it
> doesn’t need to think strategically. But if you’re
> taking on a
> > > powerful and organized establishment you have to
> be a hierarchy . . . .
> > 
> > Wonderful thinking!
> > 
> > LL
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