permaculture

[chauncey williams <chaunceyfree@yahoo.com>]

You eat them, then burn their skins and pepper the ashes where you want to 
keep them out (Biodynamic Method)

--- On Sun, 10/31/10, Cuauhtemoc Landeros <descendingeagle@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Cuauhtemoc Landeros <descendingeagle@gmail.com>
Subject: [permaculture] Moles, Voles and Gophers and deers
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 12:32 PM

Does anyone know about how to get rid, remove or deter voles, moles, gophers
or deers.
Thanks for the help.
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>From daveyisdavey@yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 11:30:24 2010
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Subject: [permaculture] Permaculture in Guatemala
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please i am looking for some folks practicing in Guatemala.

if you are there yourself or were there once before or know someone who is 
there 
or know someone who was there.... please contact me.

thanks!


      
>From cory8570@yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 12:39:29 2010
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] hierarchies and networks
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=0AThere are many more positive examples of network successes. The book Ble=
ssed Unrest gives examples. YES Magazine gives many inspiring examples of g=
rass roots networks prevailing over centralized monopolies to some degree o=
r another (for instance, recent indigenous group triumphs). Transition Town=
, Slow Food, City Repair, the organic food movement, etc. The Civil Rights =
movements, while having strong leadership in many areas, never would have b=
een successful without the grass roots networks. I am seeing success at gra=
ss roots level in my "backwoods" town. =0A=0AThere is another element here.=
 Both networks and hierarchies can operate on a mob, reactive mentality (ma=
nipulated by a corrupt leader such as Hitler, or operating on lower impulse=
s, such as a spontaneous lynching), or on a conscious mentality (where purp=
oses and actions are clearly defined and observed to be constructive, regen=
erative, healing, etc).  The level of consciousness (and the ability to man=
ifest it) of the leadership and the clarity of the purposes of the network =
may have a lot to do with determining its "success" (defined as moving forw=
ard regenerative design). I do feel the grass roots consciousness movement =
is impinging in perhaps yet unseen ways. =0A=0AThere are times in history w=
here circumstances are right for a great cultural flowering, just as system=
s "take off" when soils are right (as Toby so nicely describes in his book)=
. It can do no harm to continue to care for and feed the soils of our cultu=
re as well as our own....=0A=0ABest, Cory=0A=0A--- On Mon, 11/1/10, Holger =
Hieronimi <holger@tierramor.org> wrote:=0A=0A> From: Holger Hieronimi <holg=
er@tierramor.org>=0A> Subject: Re: [permaculture] hierarchies and networks=
=0A> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>=0A> Date: Monday, =
November 1, 2010, 5:47 AM=0A> Interesting & important topic=0A> =0A> Feel f=
amiliar with your musings... I have gone all the way=0A> from =0A> defendin=
g networked, consensus-based, "leaderless"=A0=0A> stuctures to also =0A> (a=
t least sometimes) apreciate hirarchies, and more=0A> centrally structured =
=0A> (decision making) organisms...,=0A> =0A> who was the college who said =
"The opposite is also true"=0A> ???=0A> Its one of my favotite mantras rece=
ntly=0A> =0A> but the examples (PLO, German RAF, or Al Qaeda) aren=B4t=0A> =
really that =0A> motivating...=0A> =0A> of course we have to find balance-=
=0A> and the networked structures simply have more resilience in=0A> an ene=
rgy =0A> descent future=0A> we will hate them, but with less energy we have=
 to work=0A> with them=0A> good that we have some practical experiences fro=
m our=0A> activist times...=0A> =0A> nevertheless, I=B4m surprised, because=
 the more networks=0A> seem inevitable, =0A> the more people in "mainstream=
 societies" are crying for=0A> "strong =0A> leadership"... of course, the o=
pposite will happen, because=0A> central =0A> control needs energy...=0A> =
=0A> and we permaculture dissitents are talking about the=0A> advantages of=
 those =0A> structures, that we ignored ore rejected for a long time=0A> =
=0A> interesting...another topic for a filosofical debate...=0A> =0A> regar=
ds from Mexico=0A> =0A> holger=0A> =0A> =0A> El 01.11.2010 05:30, permacult=
ure-request@lists.ibiblio.org=0A> escribi=F3:=0A> > Asunto:=0A> > [permacul=
ture] hierarchies and networks=0A> > De:=0A> > Toby Hemenway <toby@patternl=
iteracy.com>=0A> > Fecha:=0A> > Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:54:09 -0700=0A> >=0A> >=
 Para:=0A> > permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>=0A> >=0A> >=0A> =
> One subject we touched on in the recent certification=0A> thread was new =
and old tools for change, and the difference=0A> between hierarchical and d=
ecentralized organizations and=0A> tools. I'd said that I once had high hop=
es for decentralized=0A> leadership tools, like consensus, but was disappoi=
nted by=0A> how rarely they live up to their promise. I've been=0A> skeptic=
al of the value of these and similar methods to=0A> actually produce change=
, and have found the older=0A> tools--strong leadership, old-style voting--=
at least as=0A> effective (though I still prefer inclusive versions of thes=
e=0A> tools to exclusive).=0A> >=0A> > I was catching up on a stack of New =
Yorker magazines=0A> this morning, and in the Oct 4 issue there's an articl=
e that=0A> fits right in to this conversation, "Small Change" by=0A> Malcol=
m Gladwell. Gladwell is known for his book "The=0A> Tipping Point" and in g=
eneral being a whole systems thinker.=0A> He's made the points I would have=
 liked to have made. I was=0A> intrigued that he feels network tools aren't=
 good for doing=0A> design, and that they are better at preserving the stat=
us=0A> quo than changing it. So here's a quote from the article.=0A> >=0A> =
> "Unlike hierarchies, with their rules and procedures,=0A> networks aren't=
 controlled by a single central authority.=0A> Decisions are made through c=
onsensus, and the ties that bind=0A> people to the group are loose. This st=
ructure makes networks=0A> enormously resilient and adaptable in low-risk s=
ituations.=0A> Wikipedia is a perfect example. . . .=0A> >=0A> > "There are=
 many things, though, that networks don't do=0A> well. Car companies sensib=
ly use a network to organize their=0A> hundreds of suppliers, but not to de=
sign their cars. No one=0A> believes that the articulation of a coherent de=
sign=0A> philosophy is best handled by a sprawling, leaderless=0A> organiza=
tional system. Because networks don't have a=0A> centralized leadership str=
ucture and clear lines of=0A> authority, they have real difficulty reaching=
 consensus and=0A> setting goals. They can't think strategically; they are=
=0A> chronically prone to conflict and error. How do you make=0A> difficult=
 choices about tactics or strategy or philosophical=0A> direction when ever=
yone has an equal say?=0A> >=0A> > "The Palestine Liberation Organization o=
riginated as a=0A> network, and the international-relations scholars Mette=
=0A> Eilstrup-Sangiovanni and Calvert Jones argue in a recent=0A> essay in =
International Security that this is why it ran into=0A> such trouble as it =
grew: "Structural features typical of=0A> networks---the absence of central=
 authority, the unchecked=0A> autonomy of rival groups, and the inability t=
o arbitrate=0A> quarrels through formal mechanisms---made the P.L.O.=0A> ex=
cessively vulnerable to outside manipulation and internal=0A> strife."=0A> =
>=0A> > "In Germany in the nineteen-seventies, they go on,=0A> "the far mor=
e unified and successful left-wing terrorists=0A> tended to organize hierar=
chically, with professional=0A> management and clear divisions of labor."=
=A0 . . . They=0A> seldom betrayed their comrades in arms during police=0A>=
 interrogations. Their counterparts on the right were=0A> organized as dece=
ntralized networks, and had no such=0A> discipline. These groups were regul=
arly infiltrated, and=0A> members, once arrested, easily gave up their comr=
ades.=0A> Similarly, Al Qaeda was most dangerous when it was a unified=0A> =
hierarchy. Now that it has dissipated into a network, it has=0A> proved far=
 less effective.=0A> >=0A> > "The drawbacks of networks scarcely matter if =
the=0A> network isn't interested in systemic change---if it just=0A> wants =
to frighten or humiliate or make a splash---or if it=0A> doesn't need to th=
ink strategically. But if you're taking on=0A> a powerful and organized est=
ablishment you have to be a=0A> hierarchy . . . .=0A> >=0A> > "But [network=
-based activism] is simply a form of=0A> organizing which favors the weak-t=
ie connections that give=0A> us access to information over the strong-tie c=
onnections=0A> that help us persevere in the face of danger. It shifts our=
=0A> energies from organizations that promote strategic and=0A> disciplined=
 activity and toward those which promote=0A> resilience and adaptability. I=
t makes it easier for=0A> activists to express themselves, and harder for t=
hat=0A> expression to have any impact. The instruments of social=0A> media =
are well suited to making the existing social order=0A> more efficient. The=
y are not a natural enemy of the status=0A> quo. If you are of the opinion =
that all the world needs is a=0A> little buffing around the edges, this sho=
uld not trouble=0A> you. But if you think that there are still lunch counte=
rs=0A> out there that need integrating [Gladwell mentioned civil=0A> rights=
 activists] it ought to give you pause."=0A> >=0A> > The full article is at=
=0A> > http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/10/04/101004fa_fact_gladwell=
?currentPage=3Dall=0A> >=0A> > Toby=0A> > http://patternliteracy.com=0A> >=
=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=A0 =A0 =0A> =0A> -----Inline Attachment Follows---=
--=0A> =0A> _______________________________________________=0A> permacultur=
e mailing list=0A> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org=0A> Subscribe, unsubscrib=
e, change your user configuration=0A> here:=0A> http://lists.ibiblio.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/permaculture=0A> Read the public message archives here:=0A> =
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture=0A> Command to put in your =
browser's Google search box to=0A> search these archives:=0A> site:lists.ib=
iblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [search=0A> string (omit the brackets)]=0A=
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rmaculturelistguide.faq=0A> Permaculture http://www.ibiblio.org/permacultur=
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