permaculture

[Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

If you're so worried about infiltration, why don't you spend time educating 
people on recognizing that?  A hostile influence could infiltrate 
permaculture whether we teach it to them or not!  Please. Do you think the 
AIM movement tried to teach the FBI to do ceremony and that's why the FBI 
sent in agent provocateurs?  If some vested interest sees permaculture as a 
significant risk, they will try to co-opt it regardless of whether we 
interface with them or not. It would perhaps behoove us to spend our time 
becoming relevant and widespread enough to overcome that sort of thing rather 
than arguing amongst ourselves. I agree that the greening the desert project 
has far more value than any liability it may have caused (if there is one). 

Cory

--- On Wed, 8/11/10, negiliblek <negiliblek@yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: negiliblek <negiliblek@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [permaculture] Permaculture holds hands with US Miltary
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 8:38 AM
> 
> First, I'd like to thank Scott P. and Geoff Lawton for
> their life's work. 
> 
> I use Lawton's work to dispel ignorance and easily convince
> those who are on the edge of indecision as to which
> philosophy to employ(greed or sustainability). Videos of
> Lawton's work is just that powerful; Pine Ridge reservation
> and other reservations can no longer languish because "we
> were put on the worst land". One viewing of "Greening the
> Desert" starts a dawning no argument can.
> 
> Second, my concern isn't whether or not working with the
> devil is good or bad, because I really don't know. I can no
> longer pretend I know the long term results of actions taken
> in the war we are in (our fight for a way to live free of
> the poisons of air, water, food, and culture of large
> corporations and, by extension, a military known to be used
> by these same corporations).
> 
> Third, my concern is "co option". The US military is also
> starting to promote themselves as the cool place to do
> hacking in both the Open Source world and the proprietary
> world.  Large corporations and their extension, the US
> miltary, know they cannot beat Open Source and Permaculture
> head to head. So they are joining it. By joining, they
> intend to infiltrate, water down the information, cause
> internal fights amongst solid members, and disseminate
> dis-information which will poison methods and limit the
> effectiveness of those methods. 
> 
> How do you think Seed Savers was taken over by Amy
> G/Monsanto? Do you really think she came in saying she
> intended to do the things she did?  No, she said things all
> of us like to hear with a few modifications.
> 
> So, what am I saying? If you can do work that is stunning
> like "Greening the Desert", perhaps it's okay do it at any
> cost. The payback for the whole world to see is priceless.
> 
> But, Scott, if you can't stand up in front of the US
> Miltary troops and co-opt them, or you are given limitations
> on your work such that if fails/is less effective, or your
> work cannot be so powerful it silences ignorance AROUND THE
> WORLD, I'm not so sure I'd do it if I had your skill and
> knowledge. But that's just me.
> 
> We need to recognize co-option when we see it, go ahead and
> do such good work that the co-opters are co-opted, but
> protect your projects from planned failure. Use methods that
> can easily be changed to adopt to deliberate adverse human
> interference (this will take more careful wise thought than
> a usual/normal PD).
> 
> PS yes LL I still owe you.
> 
> 
>       
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