permaculture

[Rain Tenaqiya <raincascadia@yahoo.com>]

I hate how discussions on this list (and everywhere else, I guess) get 
polarized, as I've mentioned before, and I think Toby contributes to this.  I 
know he wants to stimulate discussion, but he doesn't have to make the issues 
sound so black and white (and I just got done reading all the wonderful essay 
on your site, so I know you can do better).  On the other hand, I do 
appreciate Lawrence's restraint in the tone of his responses.
 
I feel the question about how much land it takes to grow one person's food 
has been framed in a way that unnecessarily encourages this debate.  A more 
interesting question, for me, would be, "How much area in food forest is 
reasonable per person, given a certain climate and available gardening time?" 
 Cities can probably typically grow 50% of their food.  If urban areas were 
planted in food forest, a lot of the heavier food could be easily obtained 
just outside your doorstep, reducing transport fuel needs.  New aquaponics 
techniques also have potential for urban areas.  Growing food doesn't have to 
be a grueling enterprise for the specialized farmers.  And this leads to 
questions of social equity and justice:  if you don't grow a substantial 
portion of your own food, who is going to do it?  This whole debate has taken 
place with the apparent assumption that we are all equals who can freely 
choose our work.  Not so.  Most of the people on this
 list are probably white middle class people who would be buying their food 
from poor brown immigrants if they didn't grow it themselves.  According to 
David Holmgren, the peasant class is only going to get bigger as fossil fuels 
become more scarce.  Growing more of your own food is a slap in the face to 
class specialization and the stigmatization of doing such "lowly" work.
 
Maybe, as the Land Institute is attempting, it will be possible for 
mechanized agriculture (hopefully agroecology) to continue using biofuels 
grown on site.  Then it would certainly be more efficient to have foods (like 
grains and nuts) processed in central locations and Holmgren's dire 
predictions may be overstated.  But I like what Lawrence said, "The goal of 
total food self-sufficiency may be difficult to achieve but it is a necessary 
carrot held in front of them for inspiration and guidance."  In order for a 
more just and sustainable society to emerge, most of us need to grow more of 
our own food.  Who cares if it is 25%, 50%, or 90%?  Just moving in this 
direction and trying it out teaches us loads.  I spent way too much of my 
time trying to move the communities I've lived in towards sustainability with 
little to show for it and I know others who have spent big chunks of their 
lives attending meeting after meeting with big dreams that never 
materialized.  I'm not saying that collaborative enterprises aren't vital to 
cultural change, I'm just leaning towards starting at Zone Zero.  I am 
totally saturated with environmentalists and permaculturists who think that 
their work is so vital that they can't afford to spend time on their own 
carbon footprints.  Be the change, people!
 
Rain
 



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Rain,

Well said....'here here'!

All the best,

Darren

On 14 May 2010 05:37, Rain Tenaqiya <raincascadia@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> I hate how discussions on this list (and everywhere else, I guess) get
> polarized, as I've mentioned before, and I think Toby contributes to this.
> I know he wants to stimulate discussion, but he doesn't have to make the
> issues sound so black and white (and I just got done reading all the
> wonderful essay on your site, so I know you can do better).  On the other
> hand, I do appreciate Lawrence's restraint in the tone of his responses.
>
> I feel the question about how much land it takes to grow one person's food
> has been framed in a way that unnecessarily encourages this debate.  A more
> interesting question, for me, would be, "How much area in food forest is
> reasonable per person, given a certain climate and available gardening
> time?"  Cities can probably typically grow 50% of their food.  If urban
> areas were planted in food forest, a lot of the heavier food could be easily
> obtained just outside your doorstep, reducing transport fuel needs.  New
> aquaponics techniques also have potential for urban areas.  Growing food
> doesn't have to be a grueling enterprise for the specialized farmers.  And
> this leads to questions of social equity and justice:  if you don't grow a
> substantial portion of your own food, who is going to do it?  This whole
> debate has taken place with the apparent assumption that we are all equals
> who can freely choose our work.  Not so.  Most of the people on this
>  list are probably white middle class people who would be buying their food
> from poor brown immigrants if they didn't grow it themselves.  According to
> David Holmgren, the peasant class is only going to get bigger as fossil
> fuels become more scarce.  Growing more of your own food is a slap in the
> face to class specialization and the stigmatization of doing such "lowly"
> work.
>
> Maybe, as the Land Institute is attempting, it will be possible for
> mechanized agriculture (hopefully agroecology) to continue using biofuels
> grown on site.  Then it would certainly be more efficient to have foods
> (like grains and nuts) processed in central locations and Holmgren's dire
> predictions may be overstated.  But I like what Lawrence said, "The goal of
> total food self-sufficiency may be difficult to achieve but it is a
> necessary
> carrot held in front of them for inspiration and guidance."  In order for a
> more just and sustainable society to emerge, most of us need to grow more of
> our own food.  Who cares if it is 25%, 50%, or 90%?  Just moving in this
> direction and trying it out teaches us loads.  I spent way too much of my
> time trying to move the communities I've lived in towards sustainability
> with little to show for it and I know others who have spent big chunks of
> their lives attending meeting after meeting with big dreams that never
> materialized.  I'm not saying that collaborative enterprises aren't vital to
> cultural change, I'm just leaning towards starting at Zone Zero.  I am
> totally saturated with environmentalists and permaculturists who think that
> their work is so vital that they can't afford to spend time on their own
> carbon footprints.  Be the change, people!
>
> Rain
>
>
>
>
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> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
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> And: http://www.richsoil.com
>



-- 
Hooroo,
Darren J. Doherty

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