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  • From: Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com>
  • To: Permaculture ibiblio <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [permaculture] Thoughts on Productive Engagement
  • Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:34:03 -0500

I forwarded this to the list a few days ago but it never arrived nor did it appear in the archives. Reply to
vladislav@davidzon.com
off-list, of course, since he is banned from the list.
Keith


Vladislav Davidzon wrote:
Keith,

I sent this e-mail to Scott over the weekend; hopefully he
will forward it to the list and it will redirect the dialogue
towards more productive means.

This 'scam' crap needs to stop; it is utter insanity. I
walked away from a company that was making me half a million
dollars a year, to do this work; to suggest that I did that
to just accumulate more stuff/crap/money is truly insane.

This is not productive at all. There are five billion
ways to engage someone like us in a way that will actually
bring us to the table and achieve the goal of integrity
that people are seemingly seeking; but Lawrence's
approach wasn't it.

Now there is the same kinda tone being struck with the folks
with the permaculture university -- which to Lawrence's credit
doesn't appear to actually cover the PDC curriculum. However
the attacks won't work; productive engagement in a way that
really addresses everyone's core needs is the only thing that
can work.
Demanding transparency while simultaneously attacking will
not yield transparency. I don't understand how this isn't
self-evident.

I don't really care for the politics of this movement,
but it's becoming rapidly clear that we're going to need
facilitate some sort of healing through all this...
Anyway the email is below. Sigh :) Feedback or ideas are
certainly welcomed.

------ Forwarded Message
From: Vladislav Davidzon <vladislav@davidzon.com>
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:10:33 -0800
To: <scott@permaculture.org>
Conversation: Thoughts on Productive Engagement
Subject: Thoughts on Productive Engagement

Scott,

I'd like to respond in more detail both to your inquiry as
well as the friendly dialogue that has been happening on the
permaculture list. Would you mind sharing this with the
group?

Your own feedback and insight is welcomed.

-Vladislav

---

Hello all,

There has been quite a bit of dialogue and discussion going
on around the discussion that has started here. I feel that
we've triggered a powerful, much-needed dialogue, the value
of which cannot be understated -- and it is in that spirit
that I write this today. Thank you all for the e-mails you've
sent to us voicing your viewpoints -- both the support and the
disagreement. If we want a thriving, beautiful, diverse world,
we need a thriving, beautiful diverse dialogue to get there;
and woah is that a messy process!

I am hearing that there is a deep desire to ensure integrity
within what is called permaculture. I am also hearing that
there is almost no agreement as to what integrity might
actually look like -- there is obviously quite a bit of
disagreement (and lots of great ideas).

Here are the relevant facts however in relation to our
company:
- We are your neighbors, and we'd really prefer to engage
productively and get along neighborly. We're a part of
your ecology, whether you consider us to be an invasive
species or not. Let us learn to get along. We're not
going anywhere, and neither are you. We have to learn
to get along.
- We are deeply committed to ensuring the integrity of
this work. Our educational standards are drastically
higher than most courses I've seen. No ifs, buts or
maybes. Our PDC intensive is 16 days, each of which
runs from 9am until 10pm. Our weekend PDC has a
similarly intensive schedule -- and all of our courses
strictly meet and dramatically *exceed* the curriculum
requirements.
- Our teachers are some of the most well-known folks in
this movement. I would certify under the penalty of
perjury that anyone who teaches permaculture for us is
well qualified to teach that subject. Our marketing
material is designed to answer questions participants
ask about a course; nothing more and nothing less.
Let's quit beating this dead horse.

- Our marketing reaches *millions* of people. This is
power that we want to share with the permaculture
community. We shortcut the circuit for folks who are
just looking to learn about sustainability and get
them into permaculture. You may not think this is
what is needed, but we think that the only way we're
going to avert global disaster is by getting the message
of interconnectedness out to every human being on this
planet. This is our goal.

- We reach people who are not traditionally reached by
permaculture; our processes are designed and fine-tuned
to grab people at the point where they start even
wondering about sustainability and pull them into the
permaculture realm.

My point is that we can and want to be a useful ally
to this community. We are your neighbors; and we're
going to be part of the ecology for years to come.
Whether some of you disagree or not, we're not intending
to bring anything toxic into the mix. I hear and appreciate
the concerns about the integrity of this work, and I want
to absolutely be clear that all of our instructors are
extremely qualified to teach this material.

We are not perfect -- as lots of folks have pointed out over
time -- we simply aren't going to ever please everyone. We
try to strike the best balance we can, and usually we do a
pretty fine job -- and sometimes we fall flat on our faces.
But the point remains -- we're not here to please everyone;
we have a clear mission and a certain delivery vehicle for
that mission. Our goal isn't perfection, or anything close
to it.
We are your neighbors. You are our neighbors. We're not
going anywhere. You're not going anywhere. The last thing
we want to do is cause *any* harm to this movement and this
work. We're not some evil-kadeebil mutant gerbils out to
take over the world. We want to engage, productively with
anyone who shares our goal of bringing healing to our planet
and averting the global crisis of collapse of living systems
that we're currently experiencing.

My door remains open to productive engagement. If
any of you find yourselves in the Bay Area, give us a
shout; I'd be honored to show you what we're doing and
why we're here. We're doing pretty cutting-edge work and
I am happy to share what we're learning along the way. Just
e-mail me a few days ahead of your visit and I will do my
best to arrange a personal tour if my schedule will allow it.

Much sincere gratitude to each of you for the work you are
doing in the world.

-Vladislav

--
Vladislav Davidzon, CEO
Common Circle Education
www.commoncircle.com
--

Keith Johnson
"Be fruitful and mulch apply."
Permaculture Activist Magazine
PO Box 5516, Bloomington, IN 47407
(812) 335-0383
- Permaculture Activist <http://www.permacultureactivist.net/>
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- Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting <http://www.permacultureactivist.net/design/Designconsult.html>
- Permaculture & Regenerative Design News Blog <http://kjpermaculture.blogspot.com/>
- Permaculture Politics Blog <http://permaculturepolitics.blogspot.com/>

- Transition Indiana <http://transitionindiana.blogspot.com/> - Blog <http://transitionindiana.blogspot.com/>

- Transition Bloomington <http://transitionbloomingtonind.ning.com/>
- The Gardeners' World Blog <http://theecosystem.blogspot.com/>
- Renaissance Farm and Permaculture Center <http://bloomingtongrowers.locallygrown.net/growers/show/212>
- Bloomington Permaculture Growers Cooperative <http://bloomingtongrowers.locallygrown.net/>
- Bloomington Permaculture Guild Blog <http://bloomingtonpermacultureguild.blogspot.com/> - Calendar <http://my.calendars.net/bloomingtonpccal/>
- Switch to Solar Power the Easy Way <http://www.jointhesolution.com/KeithJ-SunPower>





  • [permaculture] Thoughts on Productive Engagement, Keith Johnson, 01/16/2010

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