permaculture

[Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com>]

Thanks for that, Isabel.  I've been having a lot of thoughts along the same 
lines lately.  In fact, there's been some recent chatter on this listserv 
along lines of scale that don't strike me as particularly permacultural.  As 
Michael Pilarski said earlier today, even a national permaculture convergence 
in the US looms at a scale that is hardly sustainable, and likely to be a 
short-lived, even if amazing!, occurrance.  I want to come meet you guys, 
mine your thoughts, and then I want to go back to my bioregion and deepen my 
permacutural existence.  Let's do it while we can!
 
But it all boils down to scale really, doesn't it?  Is it even possible to be 
a commercial producer AND a permie?  Darren Doherty might add that old 
permies in Australia say, "don't sell it if it can't walk or fly off your 
farm."  
 
My cash crop is blueberries.  I add new varieties every year, and believe me, 
they are perfectly capable of both walking and flying out of my gardens!  OK, 
maybe that's a bit of a stretch, but you get the idea.  It's a perennial crop 
whose fruit is intended to be removed by highly-mobile vectors, and planted 
elsewhere.  In my mouth is one of the more common destinations.
 
One of the most common questions I get from my family is, 'why don't you 
start a permaculture business?'  And the answer is, I don't know.  I'm still 
thinking about that one, and it strikes me as a really heavy question...
 
Tripp out.



The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
-Chinese proverb
 

--- On Mon, 12/7/09, Udan Farm <udanfarm@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Udan Farm <udanfarm@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] double digging PLUS machinery? etc.
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 8:37 PM


A few days ago I was looking at someone's permaculture website, and they were 
talking about trattoria-I guess it's a fancy word for small tractors. I've 
seen a few "permaculture" websites talking about what I call BIG machinery 
(anything over a push lawnmower that cost more than about $500 is BIG to me), 
then the questions about double digging made me go back to thinking about 
what IS and is not permaculture...

And I began to wonder-is using machinery on a REGULAR basis good 
Permaculture? Is growing 6 or 8 thousand pounds of food on a small plot of 
land PERMAculture? Or is it market gardening with an eco-twist…Not that I'm 
trying to offend anyone who's doing it...I'm just trying to get clear in my 
head what Mollison wrote about.


I then was searching on this list, and found a thread about the Paleo diet 
and permaculture. Paleo-permaculture he called it.

This is pretty much what I keep coming back to, is that if you have a true 
permaculture site it's not tilled rows of greens to sell, or corn.  In MY 
thoughts, it's probably lots perennial veggies, some annuals here and there, 
hopefully lots of nuts if you are lucky enough to live on a place with trees 
old enough to harvest nuts, or even oak trees for acorns.

But in my imaginary perfect permaculture farm, there is very little corn, no 
soy, no wheat, maybe some quinoa, amaranth and buckwheat (I am very anti 
GRASS as food right now) and lots of sweet potatoes (I live in GA) and 
potatoes in the spring.
So there are starches, but not grasses. Everything should be appropriate to 
your area-so ok, if you live in Kansas you have more corn and wheat…


But I was still wondering about gardening vs. agriculture…the reality of 
having tractors and row-crops being not really what I'd call 
permaculture…wondering if any true premie uses machinery for more than 
earthworks upon setup of a site...


and I was listening to Mollison's 1983 PDC….and then he gave me my answer....

"Agriculture always was an unnecessary activity. It is not at all necessary 
to involve one's self in agriculture whatsoever. But it is very necessary to 
involve yourself in gardening...A garden is something that provides a 
HOUSEHOLD with it's nutrient. Agriculture is something in which you 
commercially sell off your product. That leaves the question of area right 
out of it. If you've got a glass house (greenhouse) in your back yard and 
you've only got tomatoes in it you're in agriculture because you intend to 
sell those tomatoes not feed yourself. If you've got a mixed garden in your 
backyard then your a gardener. And you give away or trade a little bit of 
product…." ( To get rid of your excesses and get something you don't have.)
"That's not commerce, that's rightful disposal of surplus where someone can 
use it…" 

Someone asked about wheat. Mollison said, "Wheat and bread and grains 
generally, and grain legumes are a great problem in the system. They are the 
central problem… In my house you won't find any stored grains-we threw them 
all out to the ducks. Because we can grow potatoes. And that's our staple 
diet. And if we start to eat grains, we need an agriculturalist."
He did then mention that they were just beginning to try non-cultivation 
method of growing grains. "But if we don't get it, we'll stick to potatoes, 
and in the garden."
On that note, I threw out a bunch of things like old bulgar, some buggy oats, 
and something I've had so long I don't remember what it is. Gave em to the 
chickens. We have 8 bushels of sweet potatoes to get us through til Spring.
Just my two centsIsabel





      
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>
> Some regional gatherings include:
> 1. The northeast US pc convergence held annually for many years, but I think
> it has not been happening for some time.

http://northeasternpermaculture.wikispaces.com/Summer+Gathering
The Northeastern North American convergences are still going strong.

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