permaculture

["Jordan Fink" <jordan@riseup.net>]

I also love "peak ownership"
but i would put it more as "peak monoculture" (same think i guess as
monoculture generates the perspective of ownership.)


-jordan
> I see some good points to both sides of this argument.
>
> I think it's important to realize that the opposite of capitalism isn't
> "everything's free," it's "the gift."
>
> In many gift economies, people have use-rights and ownership rights, but
> they have an obligation to give and also the power to choose where the
> gift goes. People don't, though necessarily have the power to get. Only to
> where they pass the gift on to.
>
> I do think people deserve the rights to their songs and crests and dances,
> and that is what the designer's manual represents: one man's dance. And it
> would be improper to dance that dance and claim it as your own. Of course,
> we can be inspired and site our sources.
>
> On the other side, for those who are strong believers in ownership-rights,
> i have a question: what about libraries.
>
> I mean, a library allows the sharing of information without paying the
> author for the right to access. Structurally, there is very little
> difference between a library and if there were a free, common way to
> access a book without purchasing it.
>
> If you believe in copyright, do you beleive in libraries? or should
> everyone pay for the use of a book?
>
> just a question.
>
> on the other side, what is value? don't people deserve to choose who gets
> something they made?
>
> -jordan
>
>> I might also toss in the idea that the "more mature" folks in favor of
>> doggedly protecting intellectual property, may have books of their own
>> on
>> their minds (or in the works).  And I'll continue to buy, read and
>> loan every one that I can, as long as I can.  They are more likely
>> landowners as well - potentially the next great wave of discussion for
>> industrial culture.
>>  
>> But to add to Leo's argument, we might also consider the radical
>> reduction
>> in economic scale that is underway.  I wonder just how much longer one
>> will be able to shop for permaculture books at Amazon, or have something
>> rare shipped from Powell's.  The idea of making any appreciable money in
>> a
>> village, or even watershed, economy by selling a book, no matter how
>> paradigm-bending, is itself up for debate.  I already lament all the
>> brilliant books I won't be able to acquire a decade from now.
>>  
>> I understand Paul and Kathleen's POV, and I understand Evan's too.  I
>> think Leo's take on the situation is quite astute.  There must be
>> something more to this. 
>>  
>> Would David Holmgren weigh in on the matter?
>>  
>> Respectfully,
>> Tripp
>>
>>
>>
>> The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
>> -Chinese proverb
>>  
>>
>> --- On Mon, 11/16/09, Leo Brodie <leobro@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Leo Brodie <leobro@comcast.net>
>> Subject: [permaculture] Peak Ownership (was Intellectual Property)
>> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 6:28 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I wrote earlier
>> about how the ownership paradigm started with agriculture, and how the
>> concept
>> of intellectual property is less than 200 years old. Is it possible that
>> what we're
>> seeing here is "Peak Ownership?"
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks to Scott Pittman's post, we learned how Mollison has
>> used the proceeds from his book to finance his travels to many third
>> world
>> countries. That reminds me of a Mollison principle that it's okay to use
>> oil-based resources to help build infrastructure that will return energy
>> on its
>> investment. Whereas some people oppose the use of bulldozers, for
>> example,
>> on ethical
>> grounds.
>>
>>
>>
>> The people on this thread who believe that liberated
>> information benefits everyone are perhaps visionary. I'd wager most of
>> them are
>> younger generationally.
>>
>>
>>
>> Other people on this thread believe that Mollison's rights
>> should be protected; they support him in maximizing use of the resources
>> available to him, for the greater good, in this age of Peak Ownership.
>>
>>
>>
>> If there weren't some validity to both points of view, this thread
>> wouldn't have lasted as long as it has.My own view? "Yes."
>> _______________________________________________
>> permaculture mailing list
>> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>> Google command to search archives:
>> site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> permaculture mailing list
>> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>> Google command to search archives:
>> site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Knowing others is wisdom;
> Knowing the self is enlightenment.
> Mastering others requires force;
> Mastering the self needs strength.
>
> He who knows he has enough is rich.
> Perserverance is a sign of will power.
> He who stays where he is, endures.
> To die but not to perish is to be eternally present.
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> Google command to search archives:
> site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring
>
>
>


-- 
Knowing others is wisdom;
Knowing the self is enlightenment.
Mastering others requires force;
Mastering the self needs strength.

He who knows he has enough is rich.
Perserverance is a sign of will power.
He who stays where he is, endures.
To die but not to perish is to be eternally present.