permaculture

[Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com>]

Straying from the point or not, this is some of the best information on soy 
I've ever seen put together from a human nutrition perspective.  Although I 
agree that proper citation would be helpful.
 
One thing I might be careful with, in the interest of getting information 
like this out to a skeptical readership, is Susun Weed's claim that 
"unfermented soy virtually destroys all zinc in the body."  It's a 
technicality, but obviously unfermented soy doesn't destroy minerals.  
Unfermented soy might chelate or bind zinc in such a way as to render it 
useless metabolically, but it doesn't destroy it.  The zinc will soldier on 
despite demon soy's best efforts.  I'd hate to see a thesis of this magnitude 
disregarded over a technicality.
 
Aside from that, the only thing I might have missed is how PUFAs 
(polyunsaturated fatty acids) in soybean oil, (and corn, sunflower, 
safflower, and cottonseed oils), work as immunosuppressors in the human body.
 
Monumental work.  Well done ladies!  If permaculture is to remain on the 
leading edge of a human Renaissance, I think information like this is 
extremely appropriate.
 
Tripp



The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
-Chinese proverb
 

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, lbsaltzman@aol.com <lbsaltzman@aol.com> wrote:


From: lbsaltzman@aol.com <lbsaltzman@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Not soy good for you
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 11:41 AM



I think articles like this are getting far from the purpose of this list.  I 
might also mention that this article fails to cite a single source of 
scientific research to back up its' claims. The article also contains some 
whopping strawman arguments such as claiming that soy is used so that we can 
reduce fats.  Soy is being recommended for far different reasons than fat 
reduction in the scientific literature I have read.  More appropriate to 
Permaculture is how the soy was grown, processed and got to market, and what 
its' resultant carbon footprint is.

Larry


-----Original Message-----
From: SArjuna@aol.com
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Tue, Nov 10, 2009 6:37 pm
Subject: [permaculture] Not soy good for you



Not Soy Good For You
nformation from Sally Fallon, Mary Enig and Susan Weed:
  
    -The justification for more soy is based on the spurious notion that 
e should reduce fat. Fats contain many nutrients that are vital for normal 
rowth and development, and that contribute to the proper function of the 
rain and nervous system. (The right fats, of course.)
    -High levels of phytic acid in soy block the absorption of calcium, 
agnesium, copper, iron and and especially zinc and contributes to widespread 
ineral deficiencies.   (Soy is the legume with the most phytates.)
    - Phytic acid in soy is not neutralized by ordinary preparation 
ethods such as soaking, sprouting and long, slow cooking. High phytate diets 
ave 
aused growth problems in children. 
    - Trypsin inhibitors in soy block the action of enzymes needed for 
rotein digestion and may cause pancreatic disorders. In test animals, soy   
rypsin inhibitors cause stunted growth. 
    - Soybeans contain hemagglutinin, which causes red blood cells to lump 
ogether.
    -Phytoestrogens in soy can inhibit normal development and can cause 
eproductive and fertility problems later in life. Recent research implicates 
hese phytoestrogens in the development of Alzheimer's and dementia.   They 
re "brain aging" substances. 
    - Soy phytoestrogens disrupt endocrine function and have the potential 
o cause infertility and to promote breast cancer in adult women.   
    - Soy phytoestrogens are potent antithyroid agents that inhibit 
hyroid function, leading to fatigue and mental problem.   They cause 
ypothyroidism and may cause thyroid cancer. In infants, consumption of soy 
ormula has 
een linked to autoimmune thyroid disease.   Soy isoflavones are the most 
otent thyroid inhibitor, followed by daidzein and genistein.
    - Vitamin B12 analogs in soy are not absorbed and actually increase 
he body's requirement for B12. 
    - Soy foods increase the body's requirement for vitamin D.   Vitamin D 
nd B12-both essential for normal growth and development.
    - Modern soy products contain carcinogens and toxins formed during 
rocessing.   Fragile proteins are denatured during high temperature 
processing 
o make soy protein isolate and textured vegetable protein. Processing of 
oy protein results in the formation of toxic lysinoalanine and highly 
arcinogenic nitrosamines. 
    -   Free glutamic acid or MSG, a potent neurotoxin, is formed during 
oy food processing and additional amounts are added to many soy foods. MSG 
auses neurological problems, including violent behavior.
    - Soy foods contain high levels of aluminum, which is toxic to the 
ervous system and the kidneys.
    - Soy foods do not provide complete protein, as thought by many.   
ike all legumes, soy beans are deficient in sulfur-containing amino acids 
ethionine and cystine. In addition, modern processing denatures fragile 
lysine.
    - Fermented soy foods cannot provide vitamin B12 in vegetarian diets, 
s some believe. The compound that resembles vitamin B12 in soy cannot be 
sed by the human body; in fact, soy foods cause the body to require more B12
    - In some people, consumption of soy foods will lower cholesterol, but 
here is no evidence that lowering cholesterol decreases the risk of having 
eart disease.
    - Children receiving soy formula as their only food take in over 10 
ime the levels of isoflavones on a body weight basis than the amount shown to 
ause thyroid suppression in adults after three months and about eight 
imes the levels of isoflavones on a body weight basis as the amount shown to 
ause hormonal changes in adults after just one month.
    - Babies on soy formula receive the estrogenic equivalent of at least 
birth control pills per day.   Pediatricians are noticing greater numbers 
f boys whose physical maturation is delayed, or does not occur at all, 
ncluding lack of development of the sexual organs. Learning disabilities, 
specially in male children, have reached epidemic proportions. Soy infant 
eeding, which floods the bloodstream with female hormones that could inhibit 
he 
ffects of male hormones, cannot be ignored as a possible cause for these 
ragic developments.
n alarming number of girls are entering puberty much earlier than normal, 
ccording to a recent study reported in the Journal of Pediatrics. One 
ercent of girls now show signs of puberty, such as breast development or 
pubic 
air, before the age of three; by age eight, 14.7 percent of white girls and 
whopping 48.3 percent of African-American girls had one or both of these 
haracteristics.   Use of soy formula in the WIC program, supplying free 
ormula to welfare mothers, may explain the astronomical rates of early 
menarche 
in African-American girls.
    - Aluminum content of soy formula is 10 times greater than that of 
ilk-based formula, and 100 times greater than in unprocessed milk.            
 
Soy formulas lack cholesterol, another nutrient that is absolutely 
ssential for the development of the brain and nervous system; they also lack 
actose and galactose, which play an equally important role in the development 
f the nervous system.
    No other dietary staple has as many antinutrient drawbacks as soy.   
or so many public relation firms and lobbyists working for it.
     From Susan Weed: 
    Soybeans were one of the five sacred grains in the Orient. [Ancient] 
gricultural reports speak frequently of using soybeans in crop rotation (to 
ix nitrogen and thus improve soil fertility) but there is no indication 
hat soybeans were eaten until fermentation processes were discovered, 
sometime 
round 440 BCE. The first soy products eaten by people were tempeh, natto, 
iso, and shoyu tamari.   It was not until some centuries later (2nd century 
CE) that the process of making tofu was discovered.
    While it is true that the people of the Orient have [used] tofu as a 
ource of protein for about a thousand years, this is not necessarily by 
hoice nor beneficial. The early Chinese did not eat soybeans, although they 
did 
eat other pulses, because they recognized the large quantities of a number 
f harmful substances....
    There are more phytates in soybeans than in any other grain, bean, or 
lant studied and these phytates are remarkably resistant to reduction 
echniques. Only a long period of fermentation will significantly reduce the 
hytate content of soybeans....
    Vegetarians - especially vegetarian children - who eat tofu and drink 
oy milk as substitutes for meat and dairy products are at very high risk of 
oss of bone mass and severe mineral deficiencies. Oriental children who 
at soy but no meat, eggs, or dairy often suffer from rickets, stunted growth, 
nd lowered intelligence. Unfermented soy virtually destroys all zinc in 
he body, and zinc is critical for optimal development and functioning of the 
rain, nervous system and immune system.
    The soy industry has concentrated for 20 years on creating markets for 
he byproducts of soy oil manufacture: lecithin and soy protein, [which] 
ere generally (and rightly) considered "poverty foods" and rejected by most 
onsumers.
    The soy industry recognized that, according to a spokesman: "The 
uickest way to gain product acceptability in a less affluent market is to 
have 
he product consumed on its own merit by those who are more affluent."   Thus 
hese soy byproducts have been cleverly marketed to resemble traditional 
oods: soy milk malteds, soy baby formula, soy yogurt, soy ice cream, coy 
heese, soy hot dogs, and so on. These are fake products, not health foods.
    The production of soy milk does remove trypsin inhibitors, but at the 
xpense of denaturing the proteins, making them indigestible, of creating a 
arcinogen, lysinealine, and of reducing the cystine content, an essential 
mino acid which is already very low in soybeans. The phytate content 
emains, further deranging the diet.
    Soy formula and soy milk is often made with soy protein isolate, an 
xtremely refined product lacking virtually all minerals and vitamins. Many 
oy formulas sold for infants are rich in trypsin-inhibitors which can stunt 
rowth. And all contain staggering amounts of mineral-depleting phytates. The 
luminum content of soy formula is 100 times greater than unprocessed milk. 
luminum has a toxic effects on infants kidneys and may be a cause of 
lzheimer's in adults. Soy formula lacks three important nutrients found in 
all 
ilk: cholesterol, which is essential for brain development, and lactose and 
alactose, which play vital roles in the development and functioning of the 
erves.
    Allergies to soy are at least as common as allergies to milk. 
itrosamines, potent carcinogens often associated with meat, are found in high 
oncentrations in all commercial soy protein foods. Isoflavones, 
nticarcinogenic 
ubstances present in soybeans may have a pro-cancer effect when consumed 
nfermented. Although soybeans contain large amounts of omega-3 fatty acids, 
hese acids are particularly susceptible to rancidity when subjected to the 
igh heat and pressure require to remove the oil from the bean; such 
ancidity promotes cancer and heart disease. Additionally, all soy oil is 
xtracted 
ith a solvent, traces of which remain in the oil.
Shivani's own experience:
    I relied heavily on tofu for years until routine blood work showed 
hyroid insufficiency.   No wonder I was always chilly when others felt warm 
nd comfortable.   I had to undertake thyroid hormone replacement in order to 
e functional, but looked for the reason for my problem in order to be able 
o remove it and get my thyroid working well again.   Soy consumption soon 
oomed as a likely culprit.   (Abetted, IMHO, by electrical pollution, which 
ad considerably increased my stress load.)   I stopped eating all 
nfermented soy products in June of 2002.   My thyroid hormone dosage began at 
5 
cg. a day.   By October 2003 I was taking just 1.5 mcg. in the early evening, 
he time when I consistently had the most trouble.   A few months later, I 
as able to ease off altogether.
    As the change in diet was undertaken concurrently with reduction of 
lectrical pollution in my home environment, it is not possible to say if my 
hyroid would have healed with just one change or the other.   However, those 
tressed by electrical pollution seem to “break” at their weakest link, so 
o speak.   So what had weakened my thyroid?   I believe it was regular 
onsumption of tofu.
    Others have had similar experiences.   If your thyroid gland activity 
s down due to soy consumption, though, recovery is certainly possible, so 
o for it.    
    You can very effectively self-test for thyroid insufficiency by doing 
he Basal Metabolism Test.   This will accurately show problems that many 
lood tests do not.
     Shivani in WI






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>From wheaton.p@gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 13:36:39 2009
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Copyright Infringement on PERMACULTURE: A
        Designers Manual
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Yowzers.

Didn't we just have this conversation a couple of months ago?

A quick google shows ...   it was july!

Here's what I posted then:

---------------

I am so confused.

I don't even know what people are asking for.  I read the words and it
doesn't make any sense to me.  So I re-read and re-read and I'm still
lost.

We seem to have folks that want to provide lots of permaculture info
for free.  So do it!  And isn't that the solution?  Are we then done?

I know that there are some folks that have a bunch of information that
they are trying to sell.  That seems fine too.  Good for them for
making a lovely package, offering it a price that others are willing
to pay.  It sounds like everything worked out great.

Surely nobody is suggesting that somebody else go and do a bunch of
work and not get paid for it - that would be slavery.  I think that if
a person stands up and says "I will give permaculture to the world!"
THAT is really awesome!  But if somebody says "YOU will give
permaculture to the world!" - THAT is seriously messed up.  And it is
so seriously messed up that that cannot be what anybody here is
suggesting.

Therefore, I must not be understanding what the concern is.  Or what
people are suggesting.

---------------

And then in august it was covered again at permies:

http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums/1867_0/permaculture/the-big-permaculture-book-free



On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:10 PM,  <ktho@comcast.net> wrote:
> Um - no, Evan.
>
> Violating copyright interferes with Mollison's livelihood and just taking
> something you want, just because you want it smacks of entitlement issues.
> Stop being such an entitled Commie and respect other people's work. You
> don't get to decide for others what they ought to do just because you think
> they ought to do it. It's none of your business what Tagari and/or the
> Mollisons' are doing with their money. MYOB, and stop being such a special
> little snowflake. I doesn't matter that others have also stolen from Tagari.
> Their ass-hattery does not give you license to do the same.
>
> If I'd been Tagari, I'd have taken you for every penny and then some. You
> got off lightly. And stop threatening them with a Twitter campaign. That
> might be construed as admission of guilt for copyright violation, not to
> mention menacing and stalking.
>
> Kathleen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Evan Schoepke
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:33 PM
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org; Nicholas Roberts
> Subject: [permaculture] Fwd: Copyright Infringement on PERMACULTURE: A
> Designers Manual
>
> �Ingenio "Patent"
> Campus?<http://punkrockpermaculture.com/2009/11/10/permieliberation/>
> .November
> 10, 2009 . Leave a
> Comment<http://punkrockpermaculture.com/2009/11/10/permieliberation/#respond
>>
>
> (Edit<http://punkrockpermaculture.wordpress.com/wp-admin/post.php?action=edi
> t&post=446>
> )
>
> Hello lovely Permies,
>
> Due to my posting of the entire Permaculture Designers
> Manual,<http://astore.amazon.com/punkrockperme-20> commonly know
> as the permaculture bible, I received a swift take down notice from Tagari
> Publications <http://www.tagari.com/>
> andScribd<http://www.scribd.com/Gaia%20Punk> which
> I respectfully followed. �It is my opinion that this book is so
> *important* that
> it should be made �completely free on all the myriad internets because we're
> living in a time of extreme ecological and social crisis and the tools
> needed to fix the crises must be made available to everyone not just those
> with the economic �privilege to afford them. �Please see the letters below
> and also* please comment* if you think the designers manual should be
> liberated onto the internet. �I feel this debate gets at the very heart of
> the permaculture ethic of "fair share" and �I will post any further
> correspondence with Tagari here and elsewhere.
>
> I'm starting a *campaign on **twitter* <http://twitter.com/gaiapunk>
> advocating
> for the *free release* of the permaculture designers manual. *@gaiapunk
> #permieliberation*
>
> *ATTENTION: Evan Schoepke*
>
> Pursuant to 17 USC 512(c)(3)(A), this communication serves as a statement
> that:
>
> I am the exclusive rights holder (being the Publisher) for the book titled:
> *Permaculture: A Designers' Manual* written by Bill Mollison.
> ISBN 0 908228 01 5 and first published in Australia in 1988 and reprinted in
> 2004, 2009 by Tagari Publications, Australia.
>
> These exclusive rights are being violated by material that has been
> available upon your site at the following URL(s):
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/22260478/Permaculture-D-Manual and
> http://punkrockpermaculture.com/.
> I have a good faith belief that the use of this material in such a fashion
> is not authorized by the copyright holder, the copyright holder's agent, or
> the law;
>
> Under penalty of perjury in a United States court of law, I state that the
> information contained in this notification is accurate, and that I am
> authorized to act on the behalf of the exclusive rights holder for the
> material in question.
>
> I may be contacted by the following methods:
> *Phone:* (Aus) 61 + 3 6445 0945
> *Fax:* 61 + 3 6445 0944
> *Address:* 31 Rulla Road, Sisters Creek, Tasmania, 7325, Australia
> *Email:* mollison.lisa@tagari.com
>
> I hereby request that you remove or disable access to this material now and
> in the future as it appears on your service in as expedient a fashion as
> possible. Thank you.
>
> Regards,
> Lisa Mollison
> Director
>
> My reply:
>
> [image: permaculture
> logo]<http://punkrockpermaculture.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/permaculture-l
> ogo.jpg>
>
> Okay Tagari,
> the book is gone,
> I have lost the battle,
>
> however I do know of other places you could find it online for free. �As a
> practicing certified urban permaculturalist I believe this event brings up a
> interesting philosophical debate. �This book *is* the permaculture bible and
> I know that Tagari publishers is sole legal guardian of it's legacy. �In
> fact I love Tagari, and everything it stands for, what it's doing with the
> money it earns, all of it. But, I still think the book should be released
> onto the internets for free! �Why? Well, because if there is anything Bill
> has shown me it is that we definately don't have the gaurentee of
> permanence to solve the ecological and social crisis that we are facing. �I
> feel that perhaps I come from a new and starkly different generation that
> believes in a type of movement building that allows for the funding of
> projects by lots of people paying a small amount instead of a
> few privileged folks paying a lot of money. �I would really love to read
> Bill's book on fermentation, supposedly his best work, but it's also very
> expensive. �I'm not saying Tagari should let go of all it's copyrights but I
> am asking if the time has come for the designers manual to be liberated,
> what do you think? �Someday I'm sure the designers manual will be available
> free in the public commons and that could make a very large impact, lets
> hope that day does not come too late. �Will the field continue to lie open
> to every intellect (*ingenio patet campus*) regardless of income? �I'm
> interested in your response and wish the very best with all the amazing and
> inspiring work your doing now and in the future.
>
> With the greatest respect for Bill, Lisa, Tagari, and the entire global
> permaculture network,
>
> Have a fair share day!,
>
> Evan C. Schoepke
>
> Gaia Punk Designs
>
> 713 Division ST
> Olympia WA, USA
> 98502
> thejulianeffect(at)gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
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>
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