permaculture

[Dick Pierce <dickpiercedesigns@gmail.com>]

Is the answer - "gleying or glaying" (sp?) the pond? Manure, particularly
pig manure as I recall, is a good pond liner/sealer. Again my recall is to
dig the hole, let the pigs poop in it, and let them wallow in it - pressing
and troweling the manure into the soil (assume clay).

I lived for a time in Boulder, CO, USA and was fascinated in a chain of
small lakes - a couple were Boulder's water supply - that were referred to
as "Buffalo Wallows." They are on the start of the Prairie, just east of the
last of the Rockies where a lot of mountain melt water flowed onto the
plains. As the ponds dried up after the spring melt, the Buffalo would
wallow, and I assume poop liberally, in the mud. Over time/decades/centuries
these became very tight ponds. As I recall, much of the prairie in the area
was quite sandy, so the Buffalo and their poop did a great job.

On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 6:57 AM, christopher nesbitt <
christopher.nesbitt@mmrfbz.org> wrote:

> The term for biological barriers is "gley"ing the pod.
>
> http://resources.alibaba.com/topic/41782/How_to_create_a_pond_with_gley.htm
> On May 5, 2009, at 4:57 AM, Dieter Brand wrote:
>
> > My soil is about 2 to 3 feet of yellow clay mixed with stones on top
> > of a thin layer of grey clay which is formed on top of the rock
> > bed.  Sorry, don't know the technical names for these types of clay.
> >
> > Anyway, the yellow clay will dry out slowly during the dry season
> > through capillary action, surface evaporation and plant
> > transpiration.  However, some of the humidity in the yellow clay
> > layer will slowly percolate down the hillsides through water lines
> > on top of the grey clay which is 100 % water-impermeable and which
> > therefore doesn’t let through any water.
> >
> > I made a number of water catchments by excavating the soil down to
> > the grey clay and by using some of the grey clay to form a barrier
> > downstream.  This forms a catchment hole fed by waterlines from
> > upstream that doesn’t let through a single drop of water
> > downstream.  I lined the catchment holes with large stones to
> > prevent the grey clay from washing out and to prevent the water from
> > getting cloudy.  The position of the intake tube assures that the
> > water in the catchment hole is always at a certain level so that
> > there is no risk of cracking in the clay when it gets dry.  Except
> > for the tubing, I only use materials found on-site.
> >
> > Upstream of the water catchment, I made a large hole which I filled
> > with coarse sand, pebbles, small and large stones to filter the
> > water before it goes into the catchment.  We have a lot of white
> > quartz stones on our land which are ideal for that purpose.  I
> > planted different types of plants into this natural filter so that
> > the roots spreading between the sand, pebbles and stones may take up
> > impurities in the water.  I cover the catchment holes to prevent
> > evaporation during the summer.
> >
> > The algae, frogs etc. in the water catchments provide a biological
> > environment that is beneficial for the garden soil which I irrigate
> > with that water.  With a daily flow-through of a few thousand liters
> > in winter and a few hundred liters in summer, I'm not unduly worried
> > about nasty things that may develop in stagnant water.
> >
> > What do you mean by a “two acre foot pond”?  Is that a pond of two
> > acres surface area with a depth of one foot?  That wouldn’t be of
> > much use in my opinion.  It would be like a paddy field which you
> > can do when you have more than enough water anyways.
> >
> > Dieter Brand
> > Portugal
> >
> > PS:  In France and some of the other Celtic regions they used a
> > technique for making a pond impermeable by a microbial layer made
> > from organic materials.  I can’t remember the name (that’s what old
> > age does to you ;-)) nor how exactly this organic layer is formed
> > (perhaps by compressing manure and straw???).  I never used it
> > because it can only work if the pond is permanently filled with
> > water.  In severe arid conditions, as here in the Saouth of
> > Portugal, the water level in ponds or artificial laces can fall by
> > several inches per day for 6 or more months of dry season with high
> > temps.  If I can remember what the technique is called I will let
> > you know.  But perhaps someone else can chip in here.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Mon, 5/4/09, Gene Monaco <efmonaco@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > From: Gene Monaco <efmonaco@comcast.net>
> > Subject: [permaculture] Suitablility of clay for building ponds
> > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 12:06 AM
> >
> > I have a little background in this, and I am also trying to fix a
> > leaking
> > pond made by a predecessor.
> > The type of clay and how it is compacted is what it is all about.
> > Ideally, you can find clay that is a deposit from eroded volcanic
> > ash.  This
> > is very very fine and highly expansive.  Around here it is known as
> > montmorillonite.  Bentonite is a type of montmorillonite, and is
> > commonly
> > used in construction.
> > Modern methods sandwich about 5 or 6 mm (1/4") of bentonite between
> > two
> > sheets of something.  Earlier products used paper (like drywall) as
> > the
> > binder, but now they use geofabrics as well for the pond liners,
> > especially
> > for landfills.  They also sell bentonite pellets in 50 lb bags that
> > you can
> > till into the insitu soil if it is already clayey and dry enough to
> > till.
> > The liners are very effective but are expensive.  They are however
> > efficient
> > as far as the clay is concerned because the manufacturing process puts
> > precisely that 1/4" between the sandwich sheets.  If you try to till
> > it in
> > by hand or spread it out, you could never get 1/4" uniformly spread
> > out
> > over
> > the surface; rather, you have to put about a 2" layer down and then
> > till
> > it
> > in as best you can, or cover it with 18" of packed cover.
> > The key is that the expansive clay has to be contained by pressure
> > over it.
> > This means in practicality, that you have to over excavate the pond
> > 18" or
> > so, lay down the sheet (or till in the 2" layer) and then cover it
> > with
> > 18"
> > of overburden, preferably clay.  That way when it gets wet and
> > expands, it
> > will have nowhere to go and will form the seal you're trying to
> > achieve.
> > If you till it in to the top 6" without the overburden, you are taking
> > your
> > chances that when it expands it will lock into the surrounding
> > particles
> > instead of fluffing and allowing the water to run around it,
> > rendering it
> > useless.
> > The principles described here are applicable to any clay site.  You
> > need
> > something impervious enough and packed down enough under enough
> > pressure so
> > that when it expands, it won't fluff so much as to allow the water
> > to run
> > around (through) it.  So the type of clay and how it is installed is
> > everything.
> >
> > One detail is at the top.  I've seen a number of ponds that held
> > water to
> > the design level at the beginning, but then dropped a foot or two or
> > more
> > after a few years.  This is because the clay at the edge is not
> > under the
> > weight of the water and tends to fluff.  Also, animals climb in and
> > out
> > right at the top edge and tear it up as well (especially true for EPDM
> > liners).  To deal with this, you need to run the clay seam back far
> > enough
> > outside the edge of the pond and pile up an 18" or 2' berm around the
> > edge,
> > plus add rocks for weight and protection from animals.
> >
> >
> > Gene
> >
> >
> > Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 12:47:26 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Rain Tenaqiya <raincascadia@yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [permaculture] suitablility of clay for building ponds
> > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Message-ID: <655408.34901.qm@web38107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > I'm building a two acre foot pond to irrigate our permaculture
> > demonstration
> > site and I'm having difficulty identifying appropriate soil for
> > building
> > the
> > dam and lining the pond.? We have quite a mix of soils varying from
> > sandstone-derived loam to serpentine-derived clay.? Is the clay
> > content the
> > most important variable?? We have some very high clay content soil
> > that has
> > a crystal like structure when exposed.? It is very expansive, and
> > when dry,
> > it gets blocky and is easily broken up.? I think it would be fine
> > where it
> > will be under other layers or always wet.? Does anyone have any
> > answers or
> > comments on this?
> > ?
> > Thanks,
> > ?
> > Rain
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
> _____________________________
> Christopher Nesbitt
>
> Maya Mountain Research Farm
> San Pedro Columbia, Toledo
> PO 153 Punta Gorda Town, Toledo
> BELIZE,
> Central America
>
> www.mmrfbz.org
>
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