permaculture

[Ray Cirino <cobanation@yahoo.com>]

Dear Family of fun seekers,
I
know you all have things to do and places to go, but this one tops them
all. The Green Mar Vista Tour will pass through our house. We plan to
have work parties and fun going off like never seen on any tour. We are
setting in place a tour that shows how permaculture is done as people
are walking by looking at things they've never seen before.  This Blog
will show you the way home. 

http://marvistagreengardenshowcase.blogspot.com/

Look
for postings on the work shops and if anyone wants to contribute place
contact us. We need helpers and people that want to do workshops in
permaculture. We have a large living room, front yard and huge backyard
that can be split up. I see a lecture on the raised beds, another
cooking demo on the back patio kitchen, cob construction with mud
flying, and a seating area under the avocado tree all going on at once.
Jump in any of them and then party with us at 7:00pm. More info coming soon.
Ray



>From sinergyinaction@netscape.net  Sun Mar 15 12:16:31 2009
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] food forest shade and soil questions
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 What about using appropriate cover crops/green manure before the planting of 
trees in heavy clay? Shouldn't this help organic matter penetrate deeper, 
faster and stabilize within the soil profile..like sorgum or else?
Of course it (can) delays the planting of the trees down of a season or two 
but it might be worth the effort. Any opinions?
Has anybody ever used EM (effective microorganisms) in forest garden 
estabishment, either in the hole of the tree or as a measure of improving the 
overall soil food web?
Ciao
Antonio







-----Original Message-----
From: lbsaltzman@aol.com
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 9:23 pm
Subject: Re: [permaculture] food forest shade and soil questions










I agree with all that Rain has to say.? In heavy clay soils I do have one 
caveat
about the holes you dig for trees. The more you amend the soil the wider and
deeper the hole better be, because you if you dig a small hole heavily amend 
it
you can create a situation where the roots won't spread and the tree will act
like it is in a pot and the growth will be stunted.?

I have seen with my own eyes the accuracy of the observation that organic 
matter
takes a long time to penetrate the heavy clay soils.

As for the sun issue. I have one pink lady apple in partial shade that pumps 
out
an really decent crop of apples for its' relatively small size.

Larry


-----Original Message-----
From: Rain Tenaqiya <raincascadia@yahoo.com>
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:58 am
Subject: [permaculture] food forest shade and soil questions



Antonio,
?
Since you are in Spain, I can tell you that what Larry said about shade is
absolutely true.? Most plants will actually produce more in partial shade 
(like
that from black locust or Albizia trees) because too much sun causes most 
plants

to shut down.? According to what I've read, carob, figs, and even grapes and
pomegranates can produce very well in the shade.
?
However, Larry's soil and water situation is probably very different from
yours.? He lives close to the ocean and I'm amazed at how little irrigation 
the
central coast people can get away with.? The heavy clay soil also helps, 
despite

the bias against it from most gardeners.? Nutritionally, coastal California
soils can be very poor.? You should have at least one soil test done before 
you
plant, as I am learning now.? Organic matter can solve most problems, but it
takes forever to work its way into the soil in our climate.? It would be a 
good
idea to mix some compost into the soil where you plant trees, as long as the
drainage isn't poor.?
?
A lot of your questions are hard to answer without knowing how much labor and
money you have available.? Slow and steady techniques work, but they take 
time.?

You might want faster results, at least for the zones closer to your house.
?
Good luck,
?
Rain
?



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