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  • From: Udan Farm <udanfarm@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Trends in America
  • Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:17:31 -0800 (PST)

Hi Toby,

You wrote: "But doing that is no longer the best use of my time, given the
needs of others around me (and the work others do for me in exchange). I've
also found that as people spend time as Pc-ists, many go through an evolution
from gardening and building to design, and then to community development and
focusing on invisible structures. That's where I am, at any rate."

Toby, can you expand on that? Not sure what you meant by "given the needs of
others around me".

Yes, I think My Partner and I ARE evolving, from gardening and building (we
still have a good bit to do) to becoming teachers and designers, and yes, we
are beginning to look at the larger picture (community) and invisible
structures. We are evolving because we have the knowledge, and have been
doing this for many years, and people are starting to call us, look to us,
and ask us for help.

Just curious what Invisible Structures you mean?

Peace,
Isabel







>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 06:55:07 -0800
> From: Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Trends in America
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <4911B3CB.3090805@patternliteracy.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> Marjory wrote:
>
> > Toby, I don't want to sound harsh (as text can
> often be), but
> > yes, if you do not have the skills to grow food and
> manage your water,
> > then yes, I think you and most of the other p.d.c.
> teachers should stop
> > teaching until you do.
> (thanks for the note on harsh words--this is a narrow
> bandwidth medium
> and it's difficult to get a lot of nuance in it.)
>
> I've not yet met any Pc teacher who hasn't at some
> time grown food,
> managed water, and done a zillion other practical
> things--it would be
> hypocritical to teach what you can't do. I had a
> ten-acre homestead for
> ten years--built much of the passive solar house, had a
> 6000 square foot
> garden, catchment, graywater, food forest, harvested wood
> for heat,
> greenhouse, solar hot water, etc, etc. But doing that is no
> longer the
> best use of my time, given the needs of others around me
> (and the work
> others do for me in exchange). I've also found that as
> people spend time
> as Pc-ists, many go through an evolution from gardening and
> building to
> design, and then to community development and focusing on
> invisible
> structures. That's where I am, at any rate.
>
> > Throughout pre-fossil fuel history, at least 95% of
> people
> > primarily worked to produce food.
>
> The primary reason that most people were farmers until
> recently is due
> to a grossly inequitable distribution of political power
> (feudalism,
> serfdom), not because everyone needed to farm to produce
> enough food.
> I've seen studies showing that one farmer in 1700 could
> grow enough food
> to feed 50 people. They were forced to grow grain and give
> most of it to
> their rulers to feed the rulers' livestock, army,
> servants, courtiers,
> and so on. In an equitable political system without fossil
> fuels, no
> more than 10-30% of people would need to be involved in
> food production.
> Don't get me wrong, I love gardening and think everyone
> should do it to
> be connected to the land, but even without oil, we
> don't all need to be
> farmers.
>
> Toby
> http://patternliteracy.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of permaculture Digest, Vol 70, Issue 5
> *******************************************







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