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  • From: Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ten unfortunate assumptions of energy addicts
  • Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:55:04 -0400

I stand corrected. Please, all, accept my apologies for my less than courteous reply to David.

Lundberg might benefit from hearing this kind of critique and begin to supply more references for his assertions.

Toby,
May I attach your comments to the posting of Lundberg's "assumptions" I made at my blog?
Thanks,
Keith

BTW, Peter and I will be attending the

Toby Hemenway wrote:
Lundberg gives no references in his original article, and I agree with David that he's just making assertions and telling us to believe they are facts, and condemns anyone who won't believe him as "blind." Although I think we're in for a heap of trouble, energy-wise, it's insupportable to make statements like, "2. Petroleum has no substitute" since people also said that there were no substitutes for wood, whale oil, coal, copper wire, and a hundred other now-replaced commodities. It's foolish to claim we know all there is to know. Remember that physicists in the 19th century said that all the major discoveries had been made. (I'm not saying I know of an oil substitute, just that it's dumb to say there can never be one!)
So he really needs references to back up those claims. However, most of them are predictions and guesses, like (paraphrasing) "oil depletion will be rapid--those who say it will be gradual are wrong." Hubbert's curve looks pretty gradual to me; what's his evidence? His statements cannot be proven, but he treats them as the only truth.

Lundberg may be a bright guy, but he come across as a complete asshole: shrill, angry, demeaning anyone who disagrees with him, one-sided, making unsupported and unsupportable assertions, and offering only complaints and no solutions. I've read a few of his pieces, and they all seem the same. Even where I agree with him--and I do in many places--I wish he wouldn't assume that most everyone else is stupid. I made that mistake in a couple of articles I wrote, and I still regret having alienated a lot of people who would have been allies. Lundberg is alienating a lot of potential supporters (like me and probably David) as well. Peak oil needs better spokesmanship than that.

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com



David Travis wrote:
Dear Keith,

If you don't want people sharing their
opinions or observations about Lundberg's articles, then I'd highly
recommend keeping them to yourself. Posting them to a public mailing
list might give people the mistaken idea that they're being encouraged
to communicate ideas of their own.

- David



Message: 2
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 21:41:01 -0400
From: Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ten unfortunate assumptions of energy
addicts
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4903CAAD.2020701@mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Actually he does but you'd have to read more of his site and not just a few paragraphs out of context.

Archives <http://culturechange.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=228&Itemid=56>

I'm sure Jan would be happy to provide the references to which you refer if you were to contact him <http://culturechange.org/cms/index.php?option=com_contact&Itemid=3> instead of just complaining in public forums.

"Jan C. Lundberg, a national speaker, writer and publisher, is best
known for running what was widely considered "the bible of the oil
industry," Lundberg Survey Inc. In 1979 the firm predicted the
Second Oil Shock. After 14 years there, he left for-profit work to
found the nonprofit Sustainable Energy Institute, now Culture
Change. For almost twenty years he has studied peak oil, energy
alternatives, and conservation based primarily on grassroots change
in lifestyle. He has assisted clients interested in the impacts of
peak oil and climate change on material security and community
connection. Educated in Europe and on the high seas, he has pursued
an adventure called a career that is still evolving."


David Travis wrote:
Ten unfortunate assumptions of energy addicts
Written by Jan Lundberg

Our collective problem as we see the world sputter out of control for the worse (before it gets better) is largely that so many loud mouths claim to know what IS happening here. Honest and wise assessments of what all is really going on are hard to come by, partly because the corporate media suppress independent voices who may have the background and objectivity to offer clarity.
[snip...]


Mr. Lundberg's "background and objectivity" evidently doesn't involve the use
of references or sources for any of his claims.
--
Keith Johnson
"Be fruitful and mulch apply."
Permaculture Activist Magazine
PO Box 5516, Bloomington, IN 47407
(812) 335-0383
http://www.permacultureactivist.net
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--
Keith Johnson
"Be fruitful and mulch apply."
Permaculture Activist Magazine
PO Box 5516, Bloomington, IN 47407
(812) 335-0383
http://www.permacultureactivist.net
- Bloomington Permaculture Growers Cooperative
http://bloomingtongrowers.locallygrown.net/
- Renaissance Farm and Permaculture Center
http://bloomingtongrowers.locallygrown.net/growers/show/212
- http://www.PermacultureTradingPost.com
- Switch to Solar Power the Easy Way
http://www.jointhesolution.com/KeithJ-SunPower
http://www.PowUr.com/KeithJ-SunPower
- Blog: http://kjpermaculture.blogspot.com/
- Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting
http://www.permacultureactivist.net/design/Designconsult.html
- Association for Regenerative Culture http://www.ARCulture.org
- APPLE (Alliance for Post-Petroleum Local Economics) It's a small world
after oil. http://www.relocalize.net/groups/applebloomington
- Bloomington Permaculture Guild http://my.calendars.net/bloomingtonpccal/
http://bloomingtonpermacultureguild.blogspot.com/






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