permaculture

["steveread" <steveread@free.fr>]

Fascinating and heated as this debate is I was a bit startled by this

 "The fact is that a lot of people in this world are probably going to
starve to death in the not-too-distant future. Or at least in the US.
And maybe that's a good thing "

I believe it was Paul Theroux who pointed out how many people starved to 
death whilst surrounded by things perfectly fine to eat. Also we have the 
model of Cuban agri, Allotments etc. In London we managed to produce/gather 
plenty of food.

and this

 "the earth's population really needs to
be reduced by at least half, maybe three-quarters."

I'm relatively happy with encouraging 'limiting population growth and 
consumption' I would set my face strongly against population reduction, but 
then maybe I'm just being quirky.

Bio-diesel, bio-ethanol I return to a point that has been made before, why am 
I in the car/truck in the 1st place? From a Euro point of view the prices and 
fuel consumption figures that are often quoted by people in USA raise a wry 
smile, 1ltr of diesel in France is now € 1,04, and my tatty old renault runs 
at 100kms/5ltrs diesel, what all that is in Dollar/US gallon equiv......? 
19,6% of the price is tax, I think.

In certain cities grey water treatment systems have been hung down the sides 
of buildings, I assume these cound be converted to produce cattails or 
something similar?

  
Kenavo, 


Steve

Directeur de     l  'Université Populaire de Permaculture
Biographie     (SteveR) http://permacultureinstitute.pbwiki.com/

 
2008-04-0115:30:56 

Re: [permaculture] what about lubrication?
Scott Pittman wrote:
> Just this final word and I am done.
> 
> On January 24, 2008 David Fridley presented his "The Myth of Biofuels" in
> Santa Cruz, California.  Before this date a letter was sent out to a mailing
> list of progressives in the city asking them to boycott the presentation and
> calling Mr. Fridley, in so many words, "a lying shill for the oil industry".
> 
> In this letter David Blume challenged David Fridley to a debate "anytime,
> any place".  
> 

   And the reason Fridley wouldn't debate Blume was?????


> Fortunately most people saw through this self serving attempt to shut up a
> voice that raises serious questions about the whole biofuel hype.  David
> Fridley has put his presentation on an open source video, I highly recommend
> that everyone view his very articulate and well documented arguments.
> 
>
    "Self-serving attempt to shut up a voice"? By asking for a debate,
by presenting the other side of the picture? Give us a break here Scott.
 Since when is speaking up a "Self-serving attempt to shut up a voice"???
    Those dim-witted people, like Fridley, who push their anti-biofuel
hype, are doing the world a great disservice. Maybe biofuels aren't the
entire answer, but they are definitely a part of it.
    The fact is that a lot of people in this world are probably going to
starve to death in the not-too-distant future. Or at least in the US.
And maybe that's a good thing -- the earth's population really needs to
be reduced by at least half, maybe three-quarters.

Toby said recently:
"But the neocons told me the free market was the answer, not the problem!
We can thank the Green Revolution. When you use oil to create food to
breed a couple billion extra mouths, the bill's going to come due some day.

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com";

    And that's exactly right - -and probably a lot sooner than most
people think. The US economy is entering freefall, and it probably won't
ever again come back up. Not in any of our lifetimes. Any dreams of big
re-engineering projects for transportation just aren't going to happen.
The mega-industrial agri-business scenario will be going down the tubes
right along with the economy and fossil-fueled transportation, and it
will be a long, long, hard road to re-work agriculture with all that
poisoned soil and water. Not to mention the whole global warming,
droughts, floods, etc that will play an increasing role.

   So if you don't like the idea of biofuels, you can lolly-gag around
waiting for Jeezzzuzzz or Big-Brother or whoever to solve your problems,
but if you have half a brain, you'll be providing for your own future,
and that will most certainly include some form of biofuel. Or you just
won't have a future.

-- 
Harmon Seaver
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