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Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 62, Issue 5

From: Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 62, Issue 5
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:16:30 -0800

Red wigglers (aka manure worms, Eisenia fetida [formerly foetida]) are ubiquitous by now over North America--they are from Europe along with earthworms or nightcrawlers (Lumbricus terrestris and relatives). So little of this "invasive red worms" stuff applies to the Europeans on the list; they're most likely native for you.
Red wigglers are on almost every farm and in most compost piles. So I wouldn't worry too much about introducing them to a new area, since it would be very hard to do unless you are in undisturbed forest. The main concern of the invasive biology people in forest is earthworms, not so much red wigglers. The popular and natural history press gives the impression that earthworms are the spawn of Satan--they love to demonize those brutal exotics (the options for worms are natives and invasives, with no middle ground), but if you get into the scientific literature, there's a lot of debate. The press shows photos of bare-floor forests compared to wormless understories, but it turns out there is much more difference than worms there; like logging, burning, soil type, etc. And the evidence is that minimal disturbance leads to unsuccessful "invasion," so intact forest is. as always, hard to invade. See Clive Edward's "Earthworm Ecology," p 84.

You can take my words with a grain of salt, since I'm known for having a low opinion of invasion biology.
E. foetida is an early-stage decomposer, too. It does poorly in soil, needing raw organic matter (like compost or manure) to thrive. I've known several people who tried to introduce them into their gardens, and the wigglers all died. It's hard to keep them alive away from fresh compost. Hence the name "manure worm" instead of earthworm. E. fetida also can't take northern winters.

And correspondingly, earthworms do very poorly in early-stage compost piles, much preferring soil, and having less tolerance for heat than E. fetida. So if you add earthworms to a new compost pile they will either leave or probably die.

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com

trevor william johnson wrote:

in line with the ethic earth care no not introduce a possibly damaging species when it is unnecessary. in the climate of Michigan a 1meter cubed pile is necessary to hold the thermal mass you may need a larger one in...where are you?...a lid should be unnecessary because the pile insulates itself. however blocking it from wind and adding thermal mass can only help. from my interpretation of your images your pile is much smaller than that and as a result your pile will have trouble heating. i observe your desire for rich compost with worm castings. i suggest using a local worm you find in the area if you truly need the castings in the compost. otherwise use the red wriglers in a compost bin in your house and use the castings as a direct fertilizer or mix it in with your compost after you have separated the worms (which is easy to do...move all the mass in the worm bin to one side and lay a new foundation with carbon material (paper wood etc) and food scraps they will naturally migrate when all their food is gone then take out the finished half as fertilizer).

trevor
On Mar 5, 2008, at 7:18 PM, Martin Mikush wrote:

Thank you Steve and Trevor,

How critical is the wiggler migration possibility ? There is not so much too
eat in the little garden around .?
... So maintaining constant temperature is also important ... well , it may
be funny , but I set on the bottom of the crate four big stone pavers - say
for thermal mass ...

and .. I hav eto figure better lid design , because is not well insulated
yet ...
still in progresss.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 8:22 PM, <permaculture- request@lists.ibiblio.org>
wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. Green Homes???? (Harmon Seaver)
2. Re: carbon sequestration (trevor william johnson)
3. Re: Penalizing Farmers (Trudie Redding)
4. Re: Penalizing Farmers (Harmon Seaver)
5. You Tube, Keyline Design, Sustainable Agriculture &Carbon
Sequestering , Lecture With Darren Doherty Santa Barbara Nov/07
(Wesley Roe and Santa Barbara Permaculture Network)
6. Compost crate from cargo pallettes (Martin Mikush)
7. Re: Compost crate from cargo pallettes (trevor william johnson)
8. Re: Compost crate from cargo pallettes (Trudie Redding)
9. Compost crate from cargo pallettes (steveread@free.fr)

--------------------------------------------------------------------- -

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:20:58 -0600
From: Harmon Seaver <hseaver@gmail.com>
Subject: [permaculture] Green Homes????
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <47CDAF2A.5000406@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/us/04homes.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

--
Harmon Seaver

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 15:41:20 -0500
From: trevor william johnson <john2116@msu.edu>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] carbon sequestration
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <905F24B3-6796-40AE-8A1A-C8F9F2F5E8B7@msu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

This past weekend i attended the organic conference in east lansing
michingan. the keynote speaker was Tim LaSale who is the CEO of the
rodale institute. he presented on research that quantifies the
amount of carbon sequestered in the soil by using sustainable/organic
techniques along with a tool called the roler/crimper to create a
mulch on the top of the soil from the winters cover (i saw vetch and
rye used). the crops are then planted through the mulch with a no
till seeder/transplanter. the numbers were as high as 1500 pounds
per acre. he suggested tat the government should create a program
that pays farmers to use these techniques and sequester carbon rather
than sell whatever they are growing for less than the cost of
production through subsidies. he was really inspiring and i am now
going to create my own version of the roller crimper to use in a 2.5
acre community garden i participate in.

Regarding Pimental, LaSale quoted him a few times but not for data,
just for conversations about the roller crimper. i have found
pimental to be a double edges sword in sustainable ag. i have seen
his ethanol research and read what he has to say in regards to coal
and it is clearly crap. However just like an allelopathic plant like
the black walnut...nothing is all bad or all good and pimentel
clearly has two distinct faces on sustainability. does anyone on the
list know pimental and is willing to comment on his character?

trevor
On Mar 4, 2008, at 9:43 AM, Harmon Seaver wrote:

Darren Doherty wrote:

People might like to know that one of my Marin County (CA) clients
has
sponsored Dr David Pimental of Cornell University (through CFA) to
conduct a
wide ranging monitoring study on a range of different methods
applied by CFA
farmers (across the US) that they use to increase Soil Organic
Carbon (such
as Managment Intensive Grazing or MIG, Keyline Plowing, Soil
Amendments,
Compost/Compost Teas, and just about everything else that we
think, but have
not necessarily quantifiably, increases SOC.

Your clients need to be informed that David Pimental was exposed by
the investigative journalist Jack Anderson as being a fraud who was
actually drawing a regular salary from Mobile Oil when he did his
phoney
studies on ethanol production. Pimental even admitted it during a
radio
interview. David Blume, in his great book, "Alcohol Can Be A Gas",
which
is about the permaculture way to energy independence, spends some time
exposing the fraud in Pimental's "study". It's also quite telling that
Pimental publishes a lot of his work in a "peer-reviewed" journal that
is the mouthpiece of the mining and coal industry, and, indeed,
Pimental
says himself that coal is the real answer to all our energy needs.

--
Harmon Seaver
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 15:43:00 -0600
From: "Trudie Redding" <tredding@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Penalizing Farmers
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<B38BF414E6C5BC45A93575AF64F58E92021B8738@E2K3.engr.utexas.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'm reading Ogallala revised in 2000-about the underground aquiver and
the history of use of water in the region, has a lot of info about
farming-several states, western KS, TX, Colorado etc. includes info
about Mobil oil's use of much of the irreplaceable water-it comes from
the Arctic-level has gone down permanently

Sort of a paradym shift view of what subsidy means, I mean I had a
change of view with this book and the movie "Corn" and am rethinking
subsidy.

Trudie

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
lbsaltzman@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 11:13 AM
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org; sbfoodfuture@googlegroups.com
Subject: [permaculture] Penalizing Farmers

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/01/opinion/01hedin.html? _r=2&ex=136211400
0&en=3d2c87b956499ea3&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted= all
&oref=slogin&oref=slogin<http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/01/opinion/ 01hedin.html? _r=2&ex=1362114000&en=3d2c87b956499ea3&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&em c=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin&oref=slogin>

My Forbidden Fruits (and Vegetables)

By JACK HEDIN

Published: March 1, 2008

Rushford, Minn.

Jacob Magraw-Mickelson

IF you've stood in line at a farmers' market recently, you know that the
local food movement is thriving, to the point that small farmers are
having a tough time keeping up with the demand.

But consumers who would like to be able to buy local fruits and
vegetables not just at farmers' markets, but also in the produce aisle
of their supermarket

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:53:57 -0600
From: Harmon Seaver <hseaver@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Penalizing Farmers
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <47CDD305.9000209@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Trudie Redding wrote:

I'm reading Ogallala revised in 2000-about the underground aquiver and
the history of use of water in the region, has a lot of info about
farming-several states, western KS, TX, Colorado etc. includes info
about Mobil oil's use of much of the irreplaceable water-it comes from
the Arctic-level has gone down permanently

Sort of a paradym shift view of what subsidy means, I mean I had a
change of view with this book and the movie "Corn" and am rethinking
subsidy.

Yeah, all farm subsidies need to end soonest. Have you ever looked at
the site that tells you just what each and every "farmer" gets as a
handout? It's obscene. http://farm.ewg.org/farm/
And since the WTO has already mandated that the US end farm
subsidies, it's probably only a matter of time, or the US won't be able
to export crops anyway. Or supposedly so -- rather amazing that the
Bushies, et al, push global trade and the WTO so much, then stonewall
compliance when it goes against them.

--
Harmon Seaver

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:41:47 -0800
From: Wesley Roe and Santa Barbara Permaculture Network
<lakinroe@silcom.com>
Subject: [permaculture] You Tube, Keyline Design, Sustainable
Agriculture &Carbon Sequestering , Lecture With Darren Doherty
Santa
Barbara Nov/07
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>, "international
Permaculture List" <permaculture@openpermaculture.org>,
ppg@lists.riseup.net, eastbaypermaculture@yahoogroups.com
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080304204035.06b5e9f0@silcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed

You tube of Lecture
http://www.youtube.com/user/zymurgydashjive

Keyline Design, Sustainable Agriculture &Carbon Sequestering
Lecture With Darren Doherty in Santa Barbara Nov 07
Produced by Commongood Media and Santa Barbara Permaculture Network

What is biological wealth? Healthy forests,
fertile soils, abundant waterways and seas---has
any great nation been built without these? As we
degrade and treat them as throw-aways can we
expect a prosperous future for our families and
children? Is a sustainable system for
agriculture possible that enhances rather than
depletes our natural environment?

Join Santa Barbara Permaculture Network
as we explore the concept of Keyline Design, a
unique design system that restores, regenerates
landscapes, and sequesters carbon with Darren
Doherty ( www.permaculture.biz) from Australia.

Darren Doherty is an engaging and
accomplished exponent of Permaculture and Keyline
Design, Darren Doherty, principal of Australia
Felix Permaculture .He presents an overview of
the design considerations and implements of his
practice. He explains how the intelligent design
and management of agricultural landscape, through
its ability to rapidly regenerate the topsoil
that most effectively sequesters atmospheric
carbon, is a prime strategy in repairing humanity's relation to the
biosphere

Keyline Design is a complete design
system for landscapes. It is applicable to both
rural and urban areas. It is a unique combination
of water conservation and soil building, with
great appeal to both farmers and ranchers, as it
has the ability to build and regenerate degraded
soils rapidly, and sees the use of grazing
animals as beneficial to this process.

Keyline systems were developed in
Australia during the 1950?s by P.A Yeomans (
www.yeomansplow.com.au ) as a response to
increasing desertification and erosion he
observed on the Australian landscape as it
related to agriculture. His book Water For Every
Farm, A Keyline Plan is an important work
describing a set of principles and techniques
based on a holistic approach that works with
natural patterns to restore and increase the
depth and fertility of the soil, while increasing
its water holding capabilities. Yeomans realized
that conventional agriculture totally ignored the
biological aspects of the soil. He created a
?sustainable agriculture? system before the term
was coined, and for the first time in human
history, methods were developed that could
produce rich fertile soils in relatively short
periods. A permanent and lasting agriculture
Yeomans believed, must materially and financially
benefit the farmer, and benefit the land and soil.

Keyline Design integrates terraces,
ponds, tree plantings on contour, and a special
cultivation technique using the Keyline plow, to
infiltrate water into the soil efficiently and
hold it on the land as long as possible. Water
harvesting strategies employed by Keyline Design
provide drought-proofing for farms with very low
maintenance using gravity fed irrigation systems,
with a huge reduction in water lost to
evaporation. In contrast, up to 80% of water is
lost to evaporation using conventional overhead
sprinklers. Farms using Keyline Design have
amazing records of deepening the topsoil by 3-6?
in 3 years, in contrast to nature?s process,
which can take hundreds or thousands of years.

The term Keyline comes from the
reference to a ?keypoint? on the watershed, which
is the interface between collection and
distribution of water on the landscape, where
ridge meets the valley. Keyline is a philosophy
and technique that doesn?t pit the needs of
farmers against environmentalists trying to
protect wildlife and fish habitat, and with
carbon sequestering techniques used, helps to
address aspects of global warming and climate change.

Darren Doherty is an Australian Keyline
Designer, Developer & Manager and Australian
Approved Keyline Design? Farm Planning
Consultant, and recipient of Whole Farm Planning
Certificate ~ Train the Trainer(University of
Melbourne 1995). He has designed and developed
over 1100 properties across four continents
working most recently in Vietnam, on land
projects for Mars Inc, owners of Seeds of Change.
His remaining time is spent managing a working
research & demonstration farm in Southern Victoria, Australia.

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 16:58:08 +0200
From: "Martin Mikush" <martinmikush@gmail.com>
Subject: [permaculture] Compost crate from cargo pallettes
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
<a79a41870803050658r5d856aa5u810424be46e755f2@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

just finished the three hour project
compost crate from 6 pallettes, 6 bags and some nails :
http://pics.livejournal.com/allilinin/pic/0002c3de/g26
http://pics.livejournal.com/allilinin/pic/0002dyb3/g80
Pallettes are cut to little bid more than half and staggered for rigidity
,
nailed. front is detacheable and cover too.
Will see if the red wigglers would like their new home .

Any suggestions for similar designs ?

Martin Mikush
--
_____________

alchemyarch.net - Design Alchemy!
_____________
E23/N43

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 10:58:37 -0500
From: trevor william johnson <john2116@msu.edu>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Compost crate from cargo pallettes
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <B1B18DCB-973E-4A7D-9CD3-D2D40BC2AAA6@msu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

red wigglers should not be released into the wild. if you are going
to use this compost w/o separating the worms first dont use the worms
for composting.

trevor

On Mar 5, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Martin Mikush wrote:

just finished the three hour project
compost crate from 6 pallettes, 6 bags and some nails :
http://pics.livejournal.com/allilinin/pic/0002c3de/g26
http://pics.livejournal.com/allilinin/pic/0002dyb3/g80
Pallettes are cut to little bid more than half and staggered for
rigidity ,
nailed. front is detacheable and cover too.
Will see if the red wigglers would like their new home .

Any suggestions for similar designs ?

Martin Mikush
--
_____________

alchemyarch.net - Design Alchemy!
_____________
E23/N43
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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 10:16:08 -0600
From: "Trudie Redding" <tredding@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Compost crate from cargo pallettes
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<B38BF414E6C5BC45A93575AF64F58E92021B8864@E2K3.engr.utexas.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I like the pictures of Bulgaria that are at this link, thanks!

Trudie

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Martin
Mikush
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:58 AM
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [permaculture] Compost crate from cargo pallettes

just finished the three hour project
compost crate from 6 pallettes, 6 bags and some nails :
http://pics.livejournal.com/allilinin/pic/0002c3de/g26
http://pics.livejournal.com/allilinin/pic/0002dyb3/g80
Pallettes are cut to little bid more than half and staggered for
rigidity ,
nailed. front is detacheable and cover too.
Will see if the red wigglers would like their new home .

Any suggestions for similar designs ?

Martin Mikush
--
_____________

alchemyarch.net - Design Alchemy!
_____________
E23/N43
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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:20:31 +0100
From: steveread@free.fr
Subject: [permaculture] Compost crate from cargo pallettes
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <1204741231.47cee46f481b6@imp.free.fr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Build 2 at same time joined together so you can turn from 1 into the
other,
speed composting/aerating, got a lid? Whole palettes for back and sides
can be
stuffed with straw etc to insulate, you may not need the bottom, small
branches
should allow enough air and easier to empty.

Even better of course is a mini bio-gas digester, then you get gas and
compost
http://www.arti-india.org/content/view/46/43/

SteveR

------------------------------

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End of permaculture Digest, Vol 62, Issue 5
*******************************************

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Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 62, Issue 5, Martin Mikush, 03/05/2008
- [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 62, Issue 5, steveread, 03/06/2008
- Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 62, Issue 5, trevor william johnson, 03/06/2008
  - Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 62, Issue 5, Toby Hemenway, 03/06/2008
  - Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 62, Issue 5, steveread, 03/07/2008
    - Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 62, Issue 5, trevor william johnson, 03/07/2008