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  • From: "Vital Scherrer" <vital233@hotmail.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] mediterranean orchards, terracing and fire protection
  • Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:02:06 +0000

Dear nora,
Some more plants, which are useful, fire retardant and/or fire resistant, reasonably shade tolerant, compatible and will benefit the olive:
Edibles, among other common vegetables and fruits:
- Helianthus annuus, Sunflowers
- Helianthus tuberosus, Jerusalem artichoke
- Pumpkins and other Cucurbitaceae's
- Sweet potato
- Passionfruit
- Figs
- Mulberries
- Quercus ilex, Holly oak,
- Quercus rotundifolia (or ilex var. ballota), Holm oak
Nitrogen fixers:
- Evergreen Elaeagnus x ebbingei, -macrophylla, -pungens and more (fruits ripen before June)
- Glycyrrhiza glabra, Liquorice
- Acacia dealbata, -decurrens, -saligna, -sophorae, -baileyana and more.
Basically any plants which are fleshy or sappy, evergreen or remain green during the dry season. Some more detailed info you can find in Bill Mollison's "Introduction to Permaculture" pages 64-66.
My experience with mulch was that flying sparks did not inflame it, if it is quiet compact rather than loose, but an impermeable barrier along the plots boundaries is probably necessary to stop the glow on the ground to spread to the mulch.
What kind of soil do you have (pH etc.)?
Do you have any uncultivated protected forest reserves, like a national park, with native species, which were affected by the fires? It would be valuable to see which species proved to most resistant or recovered from it.
Kind regards
Vital


----Original Message Follows----
From: be peace <seed4peace@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
CC: filiz <filiztelek@yahoo.com>,Sarah Whiteley <sarahwhiteley.hara@virgin.net>
Subject: [permaculture] mediterranean orchards, terracing and fire protection
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:36:26 -0800 (PST)

Dear friends,
my name is nora and i live on a farm and a learning centre called axladitsa avatakia in northern greeece on the peninsula of Pelion (www.axladitsa.org). This is typical mediterranean climate with olive orchards all over the place and some degraded left over mediterranean type of forest and lot of maquis around. We have a land of 24 acres and a big part of it is a bit neglected olive orchard and some overgrown areas that according to local knowledge have been orchard and gardens before. we have just moved into the place last year and are slowly starting renewing the place. there is few dilemmas that we face:

1. how to keep clear the ground in between the olives - so far we were turning around the soil with a tractor - shallow ploughing, but i want to find a different method which would be gentler to the soil. the local knowledge holds the olive for a very "jealous tree" that wont like other things growing around it, hence the ploughing practice. i know about mulching but the area is too large and mulch presents a fire hazard which is very critical in this area. i have considered green mulches but then we would need something strong enough to supress the omnipresent brambles and somthing which gets harvested before the main fire season starts (june). Any ideas? It would be also great if we could get a plant which is somehow compatible and will benefit the olive and mitigates protection of topsoil for which olive is a total disaster having no surface root system.


2. great part of the land is on a steep slope, the local practice is to terrace it, i understand that the terraces have similar function as swales in water retention - is that right? what would be benefit of swales over the terraces? (or vice versa?) what is the maximum slope u can do swales on without causing more erosion?

3. mulching - im very fond of mulching but here the locals are very distrustful of the practice as they consider it a great fire hazard. in long term - with retaining more water in the soil and cultivating the humus layer - does the fire risk become less? can the fire risk be minimalised somehow in the mean time? lets say with the drip irrigation under the mulch? any experiences to share?

4. any fire protection/management advice or resources are welcome!!! so far the two main approaches that i encountered are - clearing the land periodically nevermind the soil. or burn the land - as previously "natural fires" did. im conflicted about both approaches and i feel i need more perspectives, more points of view to gain my own understanding

5. any greek pc contacts, please? or mediterranean? any resources relevant to olive farming and mediterranean?

i hope to get some advice and im willing to continue sharing experience as we learn adn experiment here. I would love to get in touch with other people who have experience with olive farming and mediterranean ecosystems in general. Thanx for considering my message!
peace&pace
norak



'Modesty is dangerous: If we believe we are here to do something, if in fact we have the daunting task of turning around a system which appears destined not only to degrade, demoralize and dehumanize us, but to destroy the ecosystem in the process - we don't have time for outdated social customs. You need to tell me what you can do, what you are good at, how you can contribute to helping to make these changes. And i in turn need to tell you the same. Anything less endangers us. Anything less leaves one of us wondering why the other is not being clear, 'Are you unaware of your gifts? Are you unsure of them ? Am i wrong in estimating your ability?' Paxus Calta





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