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  • From: scakya@lobo.net
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] PDC
  • Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:15:15 -0600

Two of the biggest problems with certification has been the locations and cost. I agree that centralized locations help and that teachers need to be paid, but also know where I live permaculturists are few and far between.
I'm wondering if a system can be set up that will allow for more rural areas(or any area for that matter of fact) to not only be introduced to permaculture but also gain support for learning and doing more, while at the same time accommodating teachers needs and those of the locale the classes are held in.Finding like minded folks can be a challenge and as the folks in NYC found out just because somebody pays doesn't mean they'll show up.
Hands on is extremely important as is seeing the difference permaculture can create in an environment like mine. An instance is seeing the "dripping" dew that has become a somewhat constant part of my life here on this 25 acres, while others in my valley or even across the road neighbors see no dew at all. Permaculture can make a difference and people need to see that first hand and secondly have it "grab" them quite literally.
Mollison has done great work and to get people excited about what he put together, along with those that helped can be a challenge. It can be done though and I believe as we see more people grasping how important it is permaculture will spread, one local at a time, with locations where it is practiced getting closer to one another.
I know this because I'm doing it in the valley I live in, with my neighbors being some of the largest ranches in this part of the state and watching me work, doing everything from building berms and terraces to planting trees and other plants. When they approach me they ask me questions and I tell them what I'm doing and what it's called...permaculture.
Pat
Earthwalker Farm
NM


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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:53:32 -0700
From: "L. Santoyo Designs" <santoyo@earthflow.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] mis-sent
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <a06240807c332afc7cad6@[192.168.1.3]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Sean, Claudia et al -
I think that everyone is in agreement about wanting to preserve the integrity of a Permaculture Design Certificate Course. (Of course -a person that misses classes, design work, etc -wouldn't be eligible for a certificate of completion -why would they?)
"Teachers in the region had their own agendas and their own courses competing for students..."

"Did people skip days and still get a certificate? "

"...I see this as a flaw in the modular format."

These additional questions, comments and concerns -work to support the need for continuing training, constant contact with a qualified mentor and support the 2 year apprenticeship requirements that are invaluable for maintaining the highest standards and in creating highly experienced Instructors and Designers -everywhere.
As a small example: The first modular courses were taught over 15 years ago! -lot's of the issues raised now are the same issues that, since these first courses, have been addressed and solved in many, many creative ways... (finding that out, in advance, is what a Mentor is for!)
I'm not against reinventing the wheel -but at least the wheel is a good point of departure...
Larry Santoyo
http://www.earthflow.com/
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:53:32 -0700
From: "L. Santoyo Designs" <santoyo@earthflow.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] mis-sent
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <a06240807c332afc7cad6@[192.168.1.3]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Sean, Claudia et al -
I think that everyone is in agreement about wanting to preserve the integrity of a Permaculture Design Certificate Course. (Of course -a person that misses classes, design work, etc -wouldn't be eligible for a certificate of completion -why would they?)
"Teachers in the region had their own agendas and their own courses competing for students..."

"Did people skip days and still get a certificate? "

"...I see this as a flaw in the modular format."

These additional questions, comments and concerns -work to support the need for continuing training, constant contact with a qualified mentor and support the 2 year apprenticeship requirements that are invaluable for maintaining the highest standards and in creating highly experienced Instructors and Designers -everywhere.
As a small example: The first modular courses were taught over 15 years ago! -lot's of the issues raised now are the same issues that, since these first courses, have been addressed and solved in many, many creative ways... (finding that out, in advance, is what a Mentor is for!)
I'm not against reinventing the wheel -but at least the wheel is a good point of departure...
Larry Santoyo
http://www.earthflow.com/






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