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permaculture - Re: [permaculture] Democratic solutions to Permaculture

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  • From: kevin s <k.skvorak@verizon.net>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Democratic solutions to Permaculture
  • Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 18:42:29 -0400

I also want to express my gratitude for all of the sharing on this topic. And i also want to express a profound senses of gratitude and humility i feel for the opportunity of being taught by so many wonderful teachers!

i really appreciate the deep sense many folks expressed that most of what they value in their involvement in permaculture is primarily experienced on the 'local' level

even though i started this thread, i also have some ambivalence as to the real needs served by a national organization. virtually everything we spend our time on here at our place, is based on our local relationships, esp since we are primarily a CSA. these are all very rewarding relationships, and we are happy to have come into a pretty supportive community

and anyway, most of the invisible structures i am personally drawn to, are basically focused on meeting very local needs for food, resource sharing, 'mutual aid' type stuff , access to land, etc (hey, btw, does anyone have any available statistics on what the economic calculations on the value of non-monetary exchange, informal barter etc.? it really seems like a pretty sizable piece of the "economy", at least in rural areas)

like michael, i do not have much real engagement on a national level, except perhaps by this wonderful listserv!, but i can imagine, at least, some of the needs that might be served, and many were articulated well by toby and others, and if there ever were such an org, i like the possibilities embodied in membership type organizations, esp since we are talking about relating on a National level, probably implying Legal status under the State and so forth. ( like i said, i have some real ambivalence here! )

and i also express some gratitude as well to those who have already worked so hard for much longer than i have on so many of the good works that were woven in this 'thread', and feel i want to apologize for the way that i 'framed' much of what i expressed, as i don't think it expressed this respect very well at all!

thanks esp to michael and kathyann

best,
kevin




From: KNat <knat@sprintmail.com>


Perhaps a different view. Using more facets and less sides.
Stating a concern one can see from their vantage point strengthens the
ability of the group, to all see the same decision and its implications,
to decide together. A concern of "negative" implication is not saying
don't continue. It is merely saying "I see a potentially contrary
reaction in this plan."
The trust in the group, is to be brave enough to be the only one who
sees it and speak your truth without fear of personal isolation.


--------------------------

From: Michael Burns
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Democratic solutions to Permacultures
conflicts?

......



The second problem is if you do not believe a national organization is needed or appropriate at this time, to disagree with Kevin's idea as presented also meant you would appear to agree with his characteraztions of those who would disagree as lacking in "trust in democratic process and organization," and prone to "individualistic trends." Earlier in his questions/proposal he suggested that we needed a process that "does not further divide us all, or place people in turf battles, or cause any of the other internal problems that seem to plague the 'movement'?

Unwittingly, a discussion becomes framed as you are either for a democratic national organization OR if not you are an undemocratic individualist that accepts the divisions and turf battles. Egos, values, and our own personal worth are at stake and the original question becomes mired in distracting accusation, comparisons, personal declarations, and dormant and minor disagreements become divisions in a movement.
...





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