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  • From: "Primal Parent" <primalparent@hotmail.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Politics and Permaculture
  • Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 22:52:17 +0000

right, which is why i originally put quotation marks around the word "society". which has both good connotations (i like to socialize, or a social gathering) and bad connotations (socialism, socialist). from an anthropological standpoint cities are sedentary populations of people so large that they require the importation of resources. sedentary groups of people in collectives small enough to be self-sufficient are not cities but rather villages, and towns falling inbetween as a transition category. for me, permaculture is about re-establishing villages i.e. self-sufficiency, not dependency on the government (or not dependent on an established social order). i appologize to all if this appears as a semantical argument but for me i am trying to make a point that it is the social system that is inheritently flawed and therefore no benevolent enlightened ruler (nader, kucinnich, etc) can "fix it". this is why i included the howard zinn quote. the greatest lie or myth of our culture is that our political system is the most advance, free, enlightened in the history of mankind. once you believe that, then you believe you are fortunate to be a part of it (in other words...DEPENDENT). it is an un-natural system that is imposed via suspended violence and as such can not be compatible with permaculture, in my view. i am withdrawing from the "politics is permaculture" argument and will attempt to steer the discussion back to real important issues like seedballing and foraging.

-best wishes


From: permafrog@riseup.net
Reply-To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Politics and Permaculture
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 04:58:24 -0700 (PDT)

Greetings, > "but when those same people are allowed to self-govern within
the limits > of their bioregion, then history has shown that they will
evolve to a > "societal > balance" in regards to their ecosystem.
sometimes referred to as "climax".

That is a way and one that I support of doing this: Politics is how we
order society and meet the needs of society's members."

The word "politics" comes from Middle French politique, "political" from
Latin politicus "of citizens" or "the state, civil, civic," from Greek
politikos "of citizens or the state", from polites, "citizen", from polis,
"city".

Perhaps we need to work with the original meaning of the word rather than
a reinterpretation.

Bob
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